Low zinc/phosphorus oil for GAS engine?

[sixdogs]

I have the low zinc/phosphorus thing figured out for my tractor engines and which oils have which amount. I solved it by using John Deere 0W40 synthetic and I get it in 5 gallon pails. Now, for my GAS engines, I would like to get some info on individual oils to figure out which oil has what levels of zinc and phosphorus. It's related to the flat tappet thing.

I have several older engines and don't want to damage them. I have the data for Mobil One (o9ff this site) but nothing on competitive syn and dyno oils. Does anyone have or know where to get any info on this?

 

[RWEST]

Your best bet is to go to BITOG and dig around in the UOA/VOA section. Zinc/phos levels are listed in the analysis.

Here's a somewhat dated survey http://www.turbodieselregister.com/TDR57_Oil.pdf - check out the numbers displayed on pages 3 & 4; maybe you can still find some of those.

 

[sixdogs]

Thanks for that "Turbo diesel register..." thing. That's where i got the info that steered me to the JD 0W40 synthetic. Great oil and a good price.

I will search the BITOG thing in Google anad see what I can learn. Thanks.

 

[RWEST]

That JD 0-40 would probably cover the entire spectrum, gas and diesel, unless you have something that specs 5-20 or 5-30.

I have a UOA J-D 0W-40 Semi-Syn. (24 HP Yanmar Diesel) - Bob Is The Oil Guy at BITOG, and a VOA John Deere Supreme "Plus 50" 0W-40 - Bob Is The Oil Guy Going strictly by the numbers, that's certainly a potent one.

 

[DieselPower]

If your looking for a engine oil for older flat tappet high lift camshaft engines then my suggestion is to use a 10W/30 CI-4 diesel engine oil. Diesel engine oils have a more robust additive package than oils engineered for gasoline engines and the API CI-4 oils will have a much higher level of ZDP, ZDDP and ZnDTP then the newer API CJ-4 oils. Many of my customers have been using API CI-4 oils for years because of concerns in older engines.

For over 60 years, ZDP has been used as an additive in engine oils to provide wear protection and oxidation stability. ZDP was first added to engine oil to control copper/lead bearing corrosion. Oils with a phosphorus level in the 0.03% range passed a corrosion test introduced in 1942. In the mid-1950s, when the use of high-lift camshafts increased the potential for scuffing and wear, the phosphorus level contributed by ZDP was increased to the 0.08% range. In addition, the industry developed a battery of oil tests (called Sequences), two of which were valve-train scuffing and wear tests. A higher level of ZDP was good for flat-tappet valve-train scuffing and wear, but it turned out that more was not better. Although break-in scuffing was reduced by using more phosphorus, longer-term wear increased when phosphorus rose above 0.14%. And, at about 0.20% phosphorus, the ZDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling. By the 1970s, increased antioxidancy was needed to protect the oil in high-load engines, which otherwise could thicken to a point where the engine could no longer pump it. Because ZDP was an inexpensive and effective antioxidant, it was used to place the phosphorus level in the 0.10% range. However, phosphorus is a poison for exhaust catalysts. So, ZDP levels have been reduced over the last 10-15 years. It's now down to a maximum of 0.08% for Starburst oils. This was supported by the introduction of modern ashless antioxidants that contain no phosphorus.

What does this all mean? For older high lift flat tappet camshaft engines look for a engine oil with a ideal zinc/phosphorus level of .14%. The oil I sell the most for "old car guy's" is ProSpec III Engine Oil which is a diesel engine oil.

 

[sixdogs]

Dieselpower--Very good. Thank you. How do I convert the absolute numbers of zinc or phosphorus into a percentage? For example, 1200 on one and 1500 on another are just numbers and not percentages. Can I compute this if not given the number by the company?

An easier way, as RWest noted would to just go with Deere 0W40 synthetic as mentioned above. It seems to have everything I need and I already buy it in five gallon pails. I like this idea and it keeps it simple.

 

[DieselPower]

If you contact the manufacturer they should be able to give you the volume percentage for their oil. Suppliers should have no problem giving you the percentage because there is a maximum limit if the oil is API certified.

Converting from ppm to a percentage is rather simple. Really all you need to do is move the decimal point to the left 4 spaces:
1,000 ppm = 0.10 %
1,400 ppm = 0.14 %

Here's a handy online ppm converter. parts per million. Percentages and Parts. Fractions and Percent Conversion Chart

 

[sixdogs]

DieselPower--So phosphorus is more the killer of catalytic converters than zinc?

 

[NJOILER]

Did you look at Amsoil's 10W-40 (product code AMO)? Here's what the spec says:

"AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Premium Protection Motor Oil is specially formulated to provide superior protection and performance in a wide variety of demanding applications. By incorporating high quality synthetic base stocks and additives, AMSOIL Premium Protection Oil exceeds the needs of large and small gasoline or diesel engines in cars, motorcycles, trucks, motor homes, maintenance equipment, heavy equipment, street rods and marine applications. It is ideal for high mileage vehicles with flat-tappet cams and high-stress vehicles subject to hot temperatures, heavy hauling, trailer pulling or off road use. AMSOIL Premium Protection Oil resists oxidation, neutralizes acids, inhibits corrosion, reduces wear and protects against deposits. It provides the extra anti-wear protection required by engines with flat-tappet cams and high-tension valve springs. AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Premium Protection Motor Oil offers flexibility and performance beyond conventional oils for convenience and trouble free operation."

It's just another option for ya...

 

[RWEST]

The oil I sell the most for "old car guy's" is ProSpec III Engine Oil which is a diesel engine oil.

Mike - check your PM's.