Anatomy of a COLD start?

   / Anatomy of a COLD start? #1  

rja

Bronze Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Messages
77
Location
new jersey
Tractor
L3000dt Kubota
Does anybody know why engine damage occures during a cold start? Is it due to the oil being cold and not flowing for the first couple of seconds or is it due to the oil draining off of the internal engine parts and thus causing a nonlubracated environment?
 
   / Anatomy of a COLD start? #2  
rja, In my humble non-engineer's opinion, the accelerated wear is caused by lack of a continuous flow of oil to the engine. This continuous flow creates a cushion of oil between bearing surfaces and a bathing of other parts such as piston skirts and rocker arms. There is obviously some oil left on the parts from the last time it was run, but oil pressure creates the oil cushion needed for bearing surfaces. Obviously, the colder the oil, the longer it takes to move through the passages to it's destination(synthetics to a lesser extent).

Just because an oil pressure guage or idiot light indicates oil pressure doesn't mean oil has gotten to all critical parts. The indicator is usually close to the oil pump, and will see pressure several seconds before the oil reaches components downstream, particularly cold oil.
 
   / Anatomy of a COLD start? #3  
The oil has drain back to the oil pan mostly,so when cold starts or after a oil change its metal against metal /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gifuntil the oil pump thru out the engine.
On cold start or after a oil change I like to start my engine at quarter setting....old habit I guess. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Durning the cold winter months after starting the engine I let it warm up about 10 to 15 mins or a half cup of coffee. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
 
   / Anatomy of a COLD start? #4  
With normal operation engine damage does not occur with a cold start. It is true that a siginicant percentage of some types of engine wear may occur during cold starts, but I would not call it engine damage. Cold starting an engine is part of the normal operation of any engine. The wear that occurs at these times is part of the normal wear that your engine was designed for. It is safe to say that with correct maintainence the expected life span of the engine will be 5000 hours or more. 7000 hours would not be unreasonable. This type of life would be with normal maintainence... conventional oil and filter changes at the intervals in your manual. For almost all non-commercial owners who buy a new tractor the engine life is more than enough. Some people try to increase this already long engine life by using synthetic oil or changing oil and filters more often than recommended or using additives or special filters or installing systems to pressurize the oil at start up, etc. There is disagreement if these measures increase engine life or not. Many times they can increase cost of ownership. I would suggest that you take the average number of hours you use your tractor in a year and divide this into 5000 hours to see if you could benifit from increased life. It may not be worth the effort.

Andy
 
   / Anatomy of a COLD start? #5  
For what it's worth, an equally important aspect of cold engine wear is the expansion rate of different metals in the engine. In the design of the engine you have to work towards wear at operating temperature. Cast vs forged, aluminum vs cast iron vs steel. All components will expand at different rates and until reaching operating temperature the engine will not be stable. I found this out when building high HP motors for racing vs truck motors for towing. The forged aluminum pistons never lasted as long as cast in the tow vehicle. You could actually hear the pistons slap when cold. Oil will definitely keep the friction down while a cold motor expands and settles down to proper tolerances but you still need to keep loads off the motor until the parts size properly with temperature.
 
   / Anatomy of a COLD start? #6  
What does "load" mean? Is driving down a hill "load?" Certainly pulling a ground engaged attachment or a rotary cutter with the engine at 540 PTO speed is load but is just be boop'n to the work site load?

I was rereading the manual last night on some things and the JD manual for the 4700 says to move the throttle to 1/3, start her up, and then move to 1/2 throttle for 5 minutes. No load during that time.

By the time I get my tractor out of it's hidey hole and down to the work site it close to 10 minutes but some of that is moving. I guess for the good of my tractor I can wait 5 minutes for the little engine that could to warm up! :cool:

The temps are falling into the 20-30 degree range for the next couple of nights so I figured I better reread the cold temperature sections in the manual.

I sure wish the seat was heated! :cool: The one thing I don't like about the JD4700! Sitt'n on that ice cube called a seat just sucks the heat right out of my ...... :cool: I went and pulled the heavy wool trousers and jackets out of storage last night so I'll have a chance of being warm this weekend.

Maybe I should change the topic to How To Get The Operator Warmed UP? :cool:

Later....
Dan McCarty
 
   / Anatomy of a COLD start? #7  
Dan Not to get off topic here but to answer your question about keeping the operator warm is simple---Kubota L3750 with a heated cab. It still takes a good 10-15 minutes before my seat is warm./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Can't say much about summer I have no A/C can't have everything. But once I get the new tractor I'll have a cold rear just like you sad but true.
Gordon
 
   / Anatomy of a COLD start? #8  
I was mighty worried that I was going to have to trade in the 4700 and get a Kubota just to keep my keester warm.

But I figured out a cheap but highly effectiv solution...

A folded up towel! Yep, who needs a cab, all you need is an old towel to keep the rear end at the correct operating temperature! :cool:

We had 4-6 inches of snow today, quite a suprise to everyone, and the temps look like they are going to fall into the teens by the middle of the week. Looks like I'm going to have to get some fuel stabilizer and feed it to the Little Engine That Can. I sure don't want any jello in my fuel tank/filter.

Later...
Dan "With A Warm Happy Bottom" McCarty
 
   / Anatomy of a COLD start? #9  
Dan, I have a book by a fellow who moved to Alaska in 1970 and spent the winters far out in the wilderness. He had a number of amusing comments about the outhouse, and that cold seat, in his journal, but then one day said he'd found the secret to instant comfort; a styrofoam toilet seat!/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird
 
   / Anatomy of a COLD start? #10  
Ah HA!

I see the Evil Pattern be but forth by you Orange Guys!

If I won't trade in my Green Tractor for an Orange One with A Cab you are going to get me! Its the Orange Conspiracy!

So ya'll want me to take off my nice JD Yellow seat, cold though it may be, and put on a toilet seat for me to ride around on all day!

:cool:

I DONT think so! But maybe this is a modification that MChalkley should plumb the depths of.... A PTO driven roll of toilet paper.... Hmmmmmm... 540 RPM or 1000 RPM? MidMount or 3PH? Decisions.

I'll wait for Harv to put out some pictures before I modify my tractor!

:cool:

Dan "Really Needs Some Humor On Monday" McCarty
 
 
Top