Engine oil flow issue to hyd pump drive gear bearings & New member

[Valleyview]

Hi, I currently have a Kioti LK3054XS TLB and Kubota BX2200 w/ Curtis Cab and many various attachments/implements used to maintain and help build my log cabin and pole barn on a 5 acre lot on top of Helderberg Mt. Also have had larger tractors in past when I had a 50 acre gentlemen farm.

The main reason that brought me to this site is to try and solve an issue with my LK3054XS TLB that is serial #26500393 with only 215 hrs, a week ago when operating the BH to dig holes for pole barn, the engine just shutdown when running at 2,000 RPM to dig holes, I got it started but then noticed I had no hydraulics, after pulling the hydraulic pump I found the spur gears that drive the pump from engine (fuel injection pump) were trashed, the outer set of two bearings back to back had seized up this in turn caused the casting that houses these gears to crack. So I purchased new parts and this weekend installed them, all the while concerned that the real cause of issue, not getting enough engine oil to these bearings would cause new parts to fail, that is exactly what happened with less then 40 mins after running the engine shutdown again, and new casting was more damaged then old was in same area of the smaller spur gear with back to back bearings that drive the actual hydraulic pump.

What I am wondering is how does Kioti provide oil to properly lubricate these bearings? On the engine block where a splined shaft comes out of the fuel injection pump area, I see that the bearing is open faced (like the back to back bearings that house the smaller spur gear that drives hyd pump), below this bearing is a small hole that when I run the engine a very small amount of engine flows out of, this should be the oil that flows into the housing of the spur gears, but when I removed the new cracked casing there was no oil in it so during operation no oil is getting to lube these bearings. I would think this lower hole would provide oil under pressure and that the open faced bearing above would be the path for oil to return to oil pan of engine. Does this make sense to anyone and does anyone know how these spur gears are to get proper lubrication from engine. The bearing on hyd pump splined shaft is sealed so this would keep engine oil out of hyd pump. What I am wondering is what may be broken/damaged or worn that provides oil to this area. I do not own a shop manual (will have to try and find one to buy) so i am a little in the dark here. I do not want to rebuild till I know what is the root cause to my bearing failure or lack of oil supply. Has anyone run into this and knows what inside engine needs to be replaced/fixed. After replacing the gears and case yesterday I had changed out the engine oil and filter, the oil light was on for few seconds till new oil made its way thru system so it seems the oil pump is at least developing pressure to satisfy the oil pressure switch but maybe not enough to pump thru entire system?????

Ken

 

[Muhammad]

Welcome to TBN.

 

[Briana03]

WELCOME to TBN

I moved your thread to the Oil, Fuel & Lubricants Forum.

 

[number two]

Maybe this thread should be moved to Parts and Repairs section?

 

[David_Kb7uns]

Kubota had this issue on the L3130 ,L3430 L3830 early serial number tractors. When you had nose of tractor pointed down hill when using a backhoe, there would be no splash lubrication of the pump drive gear. I was unlucky to get one of these models 4 months after the bulletin came out but Kubota will only install the fix except upon a failure that usually costs over $1000 in parts and several hours labor.
The fix is what they call a "holder kit' that has a new oil filter base and pump holder along with a lube line with calibrated metering holes.
I took the proactive route and ordered the kit and installed it myself because Kubota will not do any fixes until there is a major failure frequently taking the pump shaft. At the very least they should install these kits on the units equipped with backhoes, but Kubota countinues to bury their head on the subject. Likely a fix similar to this probably will help with your problem or you may find that you have a passage blocked or not drilled through.

Kubota support still sucks

David Kb7uns

 

[Valleyview]

That is exactly when my unit failed, hours after I had been digging with the nose pointed down on a slight down hill slope.

Can you point me to where I might find this bulletin that Kioti issued?

Would you know the parts list that this kit contains or goes by so I can provide to my local Kioti dealer whom has never run into this before, but then he is newer dealer and only seems to sell the CK and DK series. So no experience I am finding on my model series.

I was thinking of removing the oil pressure sensor unit installing a tee then plumbing over to the gear housing, drill and tap a hole in top of new housing I will be installing, then install a metering valve so I can trickle a better flow of oil right on top of large spur gear to help fling back to smaller spur gear and back to back open bearings that support the small gear, since this is what I have seized twice so far. But if they have a kit that was designed to fix problem I'd think about buying instead of a homemade fix. Do you know if they provide a new gear housing with tapped hole/s for oil supply or how to they get oil to gears and bearings?

I already ordered my parts but will call my dealer and see if they can find out about this fix and parts/pricing for me....but still waying the $1,000 cost of parts....

I am an engineer and I hate when companies try to bury poor design errors and pass the buck onto the owners to solve on their own or not provide the parts at reasonable cost. The replacement parts run about $182 including shipping for: new gear case (original design), both large and small spur gears, back to back bearings for small gear, gaskets for hyd pump and injector sides of gear housing, two studs for gear housing, o-rings for high pressure line I had to remove to remove hyd pump. SO how can the fix run over $1,000 in parts seems like they are gouging us. Do you have to rip any of the engine or fuel injector pump apart to install kit?

Thanks,
Ken

 

[Valleyview]

David- OK I called my Kioti dealer then in process of reading what you wrote while talking to him I realized you have a Kubota not a Kioti but the Kioti is basically a replicate of the Kubota so I am not surprised that if Kubota had this issue in their design that Kioti has it as an issue as well. Doesn't always pay to duplicate a reverse engineering of someone's product!!!
My Kioti dealer will at least see if they have a similar fix kit.
Ken

 

[David_Kb7uns]

If not, a good machine shop may be able to drill and tap the holder and filter base and put a hose on it.

David Kb7uns

 

[josh3054]

Ken,

What was your final solution to this? I just had the same problem - drive gear bearing seized and case cracked. Unsure whether to take everything apart and trace that non-working oil hole back to where it's clogged, or just add an auxiliary oil supply like you mention here.

Followup... Talked to dealer who contacted Kioti service rep and they could not identify any known fix for this issue, said it doesn't happen often enough to be known as a common problem. Talked to several techs who had never seen the issue. Nobody could explain why no oil is coming out of that hole. I'm losing hope for an easy fix or kit being available, going to head down the path of engineering something. One question though... if I can get oil plumbed into that housing, will that non-working oil hole drain/circulate, or does it even matter?

Thanks,
Josh

 

[Valleyview]

Ken,

What was your final solution to this? I just had the same problem - drive gear bearing seized and case cracked. Unsure whether to take everything apart and trace that non-working oil hole back to where it's clogged, or just add an auxiliary oil supply like you mention here.

Followup... Talked to dealer who contacted Kioti service rep and they could not identify any known fix for this issue, said it doesn't happen often enough to be known as a common problem. Talked to several techs who had never seen the issue. Nobody could explain why no oil is coming out of that hole. I'm losing hope for an easy fix or kit being available, going to head down the path of engineering something. One question though... if I can get oil plumbed into that housing, will that non-working oil hole drain/circulate, or does it even matter?

Thanks,
Josh

Josh,

My final solution and knock on wood since it is still working was to install an auxiliary oil line from a tee I installed where oil pressure switch is located over to a port I drilled right above the gears in top of new case I had to install along with new gears/shaft/etc. in pump drive section. I also got same response from Kioti but found that Kubota had a kit for this for their similar issue, to me Kioti reverse engineer the good and bad of Kubota. I had no blockage of the oil passage in gear pump drive area just fact that they do not allow for pressurized oil to feed this section from what I could diagnose. Just make sure you get the right thread for the tee going into engine block where oil pressure switch is. In addition I used nylon tubing for vibration absorption since I was afraid copper line might crack over time since I also installed a oil pressure gauge up on top of dashboard to monitor oil pressure, the nylon tubing lets me see I have oil flowing in this line. At the new hole tapped in top of gear case I added a restrictor orifice to limit oil flow into gears so I did not starve other sections of oil supply system to engine. The oil hole into main engine area is where the oil returns to engine drain pan with no issues I have found to date. Just got done digging 170' drainage ditches on uphill grade with no seizing of gear pump.... I got all the parts at a good hydraulic supply store.

Thanks,
Ken