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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Oil Filter Comparison

    That minimopar link is as worthless as any of the other "oil filter comparison" websites out there. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: No testing equipment means no testing was done.

    The author DOES mention SAE testing, but then *sort of* dismisses it. He mentions that the SAE tests are done to ensure the filters meet the criteria set forth by engine manufacturers, but then goes on to say that the testing done has "several shortcomings".

    I would really like to hear what an engine manufacturer, (or SAE testing engineer for that matter), would have to say about the "cut-it-open-and-have-a-look-inside" methodology. I'm sure they'd toss their specifications and various testing apparatus' right out the window.

    A couple of my favorite quotes by the author:

    Probably the most important value here is the element surface area.
    So...he cuts open a filter and spreads out the media to measure it

    But....he also says this:

    There is no way of usefully-identifying the media types by visual inspection.
    So....he's comparing media surface areas, while simultaneously acknowledging that different filter media performs differently, AND....adding that there's no way of "usefully identifying" different types of media by VISUAL INSPECTION.

    I've seen the minimopar link, (and several other similar ones as well), posted on several forums over the years. I cannot understand the "legs" these sites have, and I often wonder if the people that keep linking to them, (with good intentions no doubt), have ever really sat down and thought about what these sites contain as far as useful information goes...


  2. #22
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    Default Re: Oil Filter Comparison

    That minimopar link is as worthless as any of the other "oil filter comparison" websites out there.

    well, something is better than nothing, nothing being the oil marketing fluff.
    I found this very helpful, and I think the writer was pretty clear about the limitations of the comparisons done.
    We have had a number of threads on filters, it's a constant interest of most of us, and yes, we need to keep science in mind,
    not just nice pictures.

    But as stated in other threads, we are NEVER going to get comparison SAE tests, the industry and perhaps their insurers want no part of it.
    And if there was a test, shortly thereafter there would likely be a bunch of changes made, and not necessarily an improvement, but a perception of improvement.
    That's what sells.

    I have learned two things here, and from reading a bunch of these posts also, mostly anecdotal experiences from TBN members, or one of the auto blogs.
    1) Most brand name filters will perform adequately with normal/moderate use and proper oil change intervals.
    2) Some filters are built stronger, filter a little better (but unable to quantify) and seem worthwhile to me for commercial use, high performance, or severe use.

    I tow an equipment trailer, and that suggests to me, along with my warm up idling on cold mornings, and short trips around town, that a premium filter has some value to me.
    But perhaps it's all in my mind, and that's ok too. 5000 mile oil change intervals with synthetic oil and a Purolator One, Wix or Mobil 1 filter has worked for me a long time.
    2012 Kubota L5740HSTC3 with FEL and Long grapple, 1986 Case IH 255, Land Pride PD10 PHD, Land Pride RCR60 & RCF2084 mowers, Land Pride 4' box blade and rear rake, Fred Cain subsoiler, County Line potato plow, County Line 1 bottom plow, 1986 Gravely 8199G with tow behind DR rototiller, 50" deck+40" Gravely wing mower, Gravely snowblower, Swisher 44 rough cut mower,Ariens snowblower, Echo 450-18 & 600-24, Echo PPT280, 2006 JD LX280, , 1968 Cub Cadet 125, Husky-Speeco 35 ton splitter

  3. #23
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    08 Cub Ex3200

    Default Re: Oil Filter Comparison

    Thats why I love my cars that dont have spin on filters, no cutting needed. I see the element when I take it out.

  4. #24
    Super Member 94BULLITT's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by puckgrinder85 View Post
    Thats why I love my cars that dont have spin on filters, no cutting needed. I see the element when I take it out.
    There is not much for them to cheap out on a cartridge filter.
    Roger

    Kubota BX2360 & Kubota L4240 with paddle shifter, suicide doors and 24's
    Past Stuff: Ford 8N, Cub Cadet 2206, Bobcat CT235

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  5. #25
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    Default Re: Oil Filter Comparison

    personally, I use Motorcraft on my wifes Mazda, Donaldson on my Cummins and Cat on anything else that I can find a cross-reference for..
    Every time I find a filter test online, Fram seels to be the big topic of discussion. Think I will just steer clear of orange filters...
    Kubota L4400 GST

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Oil Filter Comparison

    Every time I find a filter test online, Fram seels to be the big topic of discussion. Think I will just steer clear of orange filters...
    If you ever DO see a "filter test" online, by all means post a link to it. Absolutely NONE of the cut-'em-open-and-peek-inside filter comparison websites have done anything that remotely resembles testing.

    What other product do we allow someone else, (without experience, expertise, or testing equipment), to "evaluate" for us so we can base our purchasing decisions upon their say-so....when an entity WITH experience, expertise, and lots of testing equipment has stamped their seal of approval on said product already?

  7. #27
    Super Member 94BULLITT's Avatar
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    I think the average person could tell a lot about a oil filter just by looking at it. You don't have to be a engineer to so the advantages or disadvantages of a filter.
    Roger

    Kubota BX2360 & Kubota L4240 with paddle shifter, suicide doors and 24's
    Past Stuff: Ford 8N, Cub Cadet 2206, Bobcat CT235

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  8. #28
    Epic Contributor Soundguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oil Filter Comparison

    alot of the differences I notice in a spin on is can thickness. i've seen some no names that the drive thru's use are as thin as a soda can nearly.

    still.. on a car/truck where it's protected from sticks and rocks.. that's not an issue.

    on a tractor.. i have on occasion had a stick / rock damage a spin on with a thin can ( have had em damage thick canned ones too.. depending on what ya hit with em )

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Oil Filter Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by brokenot View Post
    If you ever DO see a "filter test" online, by all means post a link to it. Absolutely NONE of the cut-'em-open-and-peek-inside filter comparison websites have done anything that remotely resembles testing.

    What other product do we allow someone else, (without experience, expertise, or testing equipment), to "evaluate" for us so we can base our purchasing decisions upon their say-so....when an entity WITH experience, expertise, and lots of testing equipment has stamped their seal of approval on said product already?
    Some companies make only one quality filter. Others like Fram make several, or more, for different price points and application. And it seems most dealership filters are rebranded "something" that is always a question.
    I got quizzed at my GM dealer about why I thought I needed to use a K&N filter. Or a Mobil 1. From reading this article, now I know why, the case really is thicker, and on one vehicle the nut welded on the end was super helpful
    because the access hole in the plastic shrouding was tiny. Otherwise the two filters are likely the same, and buy the cheaper. Good tip.

    But one good tip does not make a good decision. Without micron ratings and bypass stats, you're absolutely right, we are ignoring the chemistry and science and are marveling at the chrome case...or something that may
    not impact on real world filtration at all. And when is a filter "too big"? Or too small? I have owned several Nissan and Infiniti products and their oil filter is the same size as the one on my JD lawn tractor. Amazingly small.
    And my wife's SRX, one of the early ones, had a cartridge filter. GM's highest tech V6 and it has a cartridge filter. Why?

    Due to the high cost/value of today's engines, in cars, trucks, boats, whatever, a defective oil filter could expensively trash an engine, though I've never heard of it happening. And the cost times however many bad filters there were in that run could be a huge product liability cost and very destructive to a brand name's image. So it makes sense the big guys would have high spec quality control.

    And we are back at square one. Another thread addressed this, no Consumer Reports or anyone is willing to do comparative testing. SAE, etc sets specs, but I have very little faith that the dealership's "house filter" is set to any spec; it's what they get a good deal on. And gosh, if the engine fails, likely it will come back for profitable servicing, so I'm leery of dealer recommendations.
    2012 Kubota L5740HSTC3 with FEL and Long grapple, 1986 Case IH 255, Land Pride PD10 PHD, Land Pride RCR60 & RCF2084 mowers, Land Pride 4' box blade and rear rake, Fred Cain subsoiler, County Line potato plow, County Line 1 bottom plow, 1986 Gravely 8199G with tow behind DR rototiller, 50" deck+40" Gravely wing mower, Gravely snowblower, Swisher 44 rough cut mower,Ariens snowblower, Echo 450-18 & 600-24, Echo PPT280, 2006 JD LX280, , 1968 Cub Cadet 125, Husky-Speeco 35 ton splitter

  10. #30
    Super Member 94BULLITT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oil Filter Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by daugen View Post
    Due to the high cost/value of today's engines, in cars, trucks, boats, whatever, a defective oil filter could expensively trash an engine, though I've never heard of it happening. And the cost times however many bad filters there were in that run could be a huge product liability cost and very destructive to a brand name's image. So it makes sense the big guys would have high spec quality control.
    The reason you never hear of a defective oil filter is because most people are not away that is what happened to their engine. Alot of people say I have never had any problem with a Fram but there is a good chance they could have. If you can get a 150,000 mile out of a engine with a Fram how long would it have lasted with a quality filter like a Wix.
    Roger

    Kubota BX2360 & Kubota L4240 with paddle shifter, suicide doors and 24's
    Past Stuff: Ford 8N, Cub Cadet 2206, Bobcat CT235

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