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  1. #21
    Epic Contributor Soundguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The age old question .....Synthetic or not

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamBos View Post
    Hey Chris,

    The Premium blue 5W40 holds up well in the Florida heat?It is my oil of choice for the winter, may consider it for the summer.
    working great in mine!

  2. #22
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    Default Re: The age old question .....Synthetic or not

    Quote Originally Posted by Copperhead View Post
    For normal operating and normal towing, nope. No one can prove it has that much more benefit for the cost. It mostly just makes them feel better that they are putting in the "best", or what they perceive to be the best.
    In my '97 Volvo V90 there is a "clatter" for ~10 seconds when you first start the engine in the morning (from the hydraulic lifters IIRC) when it has dino oil in it. Mobil 1 synthetic in the same weight completely gets rid of the clatter.
    Engines that are prone to getting sludge built up in the engine when using dino oil (such as the '99 to '01ish Volvo V70 which recommended 7500 mile oil changes with dino oil) do not have sludge problems with synthetic oil. See https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...vo/Z_S6F-4kpxc and thousands of similar stories.

    Aaron Z
    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: The age old question .....Synthetic or not

    Sex, Politics, Religion, and Conventional vs. Synthetic.

    All good ways to start a flamewar !

    Regardless where you sit on the oil debate, it is worth remembering that OE specs have been changing, esp. in the last 10 years. Meaning other than just Recommended Viscosity.

    The OP has listed the OE spec as Semi-Synth. Mercedes lost a lawsuit here (cars), since they did not have Synthetic correctly identified as their intended requirement for the (longer) OCI they listed in their Owner's Manuals.

    You'd think that when a big % of your target market are either 1) Lawyers, or 2) have Lawyers on retainer, that you'd have gotten that bit of documentation correct from the GetGo !

    Euro spec oils, especially, have become more convoluted (SAPS level) for the average consumer to grasp.

    I understand your sentiments Copperhead, and do agree with most of them. That said, I do run Synthetics in everything I own.

    One problem is understanding (meaning general, not yours) what constitutes a Service Category. I see tiny cars pulling trailers around here, the most memorable was a Smart car on our 400 Expressway. It will be interesting to see what happens with this new generation of turbo'd tiny gas motors that are now coming out, once they have been in use for a while. Realistically, for some of these people Severe Service is just a baseline.

    Rgds, D.

  4. #24
    Epic Contributor Soundguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The age old question .....Synthetic or not

    Quote Originally Posted by 3930dave View Post
    One problem is understanding (meaning general, not yours) what constitutes a Service Category. I see tiny cars pulling trailers around here, the most memorable was a Smart car on our 400 Expressway. It will be interesting to see what happens with this new generation of turbo'd tiny gas motors that are now coming out, once they have been in use for a while. Realistically, for some of these people Severe Service is just a baseline.

    Rgds, D.
    i agree.... extended idling. pulling out of category.. etc. etc..

  5. #25
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    Default Re: The age old question .....Synthetic or not

    Synthetic blends are primarily a marketing-driven product that does little more than fill the void in the consumer's mind between regular petroleum and synthetic. The amount of synthetic motor oil content in synthetic blend motor oil can be as little 10 percent or less. There are no specifications that cover what amount can be used to call it a semi-synthetic or synthetic blend.





    Memo:

    We are preparing to launch a new product line of "Semi-Synthetic" motor oils to appeal to the shifting mass of market becoming educated to and finding value in the performance characteristics of synthetic lubes--but whom, however, avoid the product due to its premium cost. Blend 10% synthetic into bulk petroleum oil for packaging as "High-Performance Premium Semi-Synthetic" at a price point of 220% the cost of regular petroleum oil.
    Mike
    2012 GMC AWD Sierra Denali 6.2L
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  6. #26
    Super Star Member Diamondpilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z71 View Post
    Synthetic blends are primarily a marketing-driven product that does little more than fill the void in the consumer's mind between regular petroleum and synthetic. The amount of synthetic motor oil content in synthetic blend motor oil can be as little 10 percent or less. There are no specifications that cover what amount can be used to call it a semi-synthetic or synthetic blend.

    Memo:

    We are preparing to launch a new product line of "Semi-Synthetic" motor oils to appeal to the shifting mass of market becoming educated to and finding value in the performance characteristics of synthetic lubes--but whom, however, avoid the product due to its premium cost. Blend 10% synthetic into bulk petroleum oil for packaging as "High-Performance Premium Semi-Synthetic" at a price point of 220% the cost of regular petroleum oil.
    I agree there is no regulatory body stating the amount of synthetic in a semi synthetic product I see the price point equal to, or in the case of the Motorcraft oil, cheaper than a name brand dino oil.

    Chris

  7. #27
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    Default Re: The age old question .....Synthetic or not

    with the quality of newer engines and newer oils, i think that pretty much any oil will sufficiently lubricate any engine and outlast the life of the overall vehicle, but since i don't know the exact inner workings of the engines, i'll continue to err on the side of caution. i have a car that shipped from the factory with mobil 1 and also has the mobil 1 sticker on the chassis under the hood just to remind you. because of this i always use a synthetic - either mobil 1 or amsoil, depending on availability and price at the time of change. i do have some other reasoning to reinforce my decision on this too:

    through internet searches you can find a lot of information on oil sludging causing premature engine failures on models a few years prior to mine. i have heard speculation that extended change intervals on conventional oils may have led to this. i also believe that due to increased engineering design there are now smaller oil passages that are more prone to being plugged. these cars also have turbochargers and when the vehicles are shut off the oil in the turbos is subjected to extreme heat with no flow. i don't know if there were any other changes made, but the manufacturer switched to syntheic there didn't seem to be an oil sludging issue. for the small cost of using synthetics in a passenger car change it's worth a few extra dollars to me. if the manufacturer didn't call for a synthetic i wouldn't worry myself about it as much. if they do, maybe there is a reason for it.

    both of my trucks also use synthetic, but i don't do it for an increase in change interval or protection - i only do it because i've had issues with the oil not pumping on extremely cold days in the winter. that was only in the diesel with 15-40, but even the gas engine seems to idle smoother with the synthetic in the cold months. again, it's cheap enough for me to do as peace of mind insurance. i have no doubt that conventional oils would make the engines outlast the chassis.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: The age old question .....Synthetic or not

    Quote Originally Posted by crashz View Post
    Just to add to the confusion a little, Motorcraft makes an excellent oil. Last time I looked at it, it was a blend of group II and III oils bottled by ConocoPhillips. The UOAs posted on BITOG were fantastic, and if you stick to regular oil changes around 5k miles each, will perform better than most group III oils labeled "synthetic".

    Another benefit is that it's easy to find. Beside the Ford dealers, every autoparts store around sells it.
    BITOG is a great resource.

    http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...s.php?ubb=cfrm

    crashz - great summary - I get down to Upstate once in a while, thanks for pointing out the availability. I tend to think of these MC oils being only stocked at Ford dealers (the more typical practice in Canada).

    If one has the inclination, you can learn a lot about specific motor vs. oil combinations over on BITOG, as people post their oil analysis reports listing engine and oil specifics.

    I think the OE spec for the OP's F150 is 5W20. One thing I'd be looking at is to what extent a Used Oil Analysis shows a particular oil Shearing out of grade, in the specific motor you are using.

    There is enough info on BITOG to guide you as to how to interpret viscosity shearing reports, but a fast way to get a feel for this issue is just to read the comments from the regular posters.

    Many people do not tow heavy with an F150, but my heavy-viscosity-vs.-my-age thinking would have me watching for a 20 weight oil shearing down (thinning out) with use. (I'm not saying to go heavier oil in this application, just that it would be something I'd be watching out for).

    I know of no performance related issues with the Motorcraft oils discussed, and expect that they would perform well at the factory OCI.

    Rgds, D.

  9. #29
    Veteran Member crashz's Avatar
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    Good points Dave. BITOG is a great resource and definitely helps people learn the ropes and pick the best products for themselves. Occasionally the threads get heated like the ones here, but there is a sea of info to absorb.
    I've had a wonderful evening, but this wasn't it. ~ Groucho Marx

  10. #30
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    Default Re: The age old question .....Synthetic or not

    I am backing away from full synthetic 5W-40 Rotella in the diesels and big block Ford and Chevy engines due to it meeting the gas engine ratings of recent years.

    API SG rated oils had 1200-1300 ppm level for zinc and phosphorus, where the current SM is under 600 ppm. This reduction in anti-wear chemicals in oil has caused premature failures of camshafts and other high pressure bearings in many older automobiles and has been blamed for pre-mature failure of the oil pump drive/cam position sensor gear that is meshed with camshaft gear in some modern engines.

    My current solution to get the the zinc/phosphorus levels up is to 1050 ppm is to go with a 50/50 blend of Rotella 5W-40 Synthetic (in inventory) and dino Rotella 15W-40 to give more or less a 10W-40 weight that will be good for year round use.

    This will also reduce the per quart price from $5.50 to $4.38 but the main reason is better lube. In fact I may move back to the better lube features of Rotella 15W-40 (1300 ppm) for the diesels because I do not like to start the old backhoe engine or use it with temps below 40F and the MF tractor has a block heater so the 15W will be fine starting with a hot block.

    I am fine with 15W-40 in old gas engines when the typical air temps are 70-100F but the 50/50 blend should be good down to 0F which is all I need.

    Now I do like full synthetic flow ability but in the older engines high zinc levels are mission critical.

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