TODAYS OILS VERSUS YESTERDAYS MANUALS

[namesray]

JUST BEEN WONDERING LATELY IS THERE A TIME WHEN THE OPERATOR MANUALS BECOME OUT DATED AS TECHNOLOGY ADVANCES, ESPECIALLY WITH THE FLUID CHANGE INTERVALS. MORE TO THE POINT, MY 2007 KUBOTA B7800 MANUAL STATES TO CHANGE THE TRANSMISSION/HYDRAULIC (SUDT) OIL EVERY 300 HOURS. AS TIME WENT ON, KUBOTA REPLACED THE REGULAR UDT AND SUDT OILS WITH SUDT2 WHICH IS SYNTHETIC. I AM GUESSING THE REGULAR UDT AND SUDT ARE NOT SYNTHETIC. NOW, MY 2012 KUBOTA B3200 MANUAL STATES TO CHANGE THE SUDT2 OIL (TRANSMISSION/HYDRAULIC) EVERY 400 HOURS WITH JUST A HST FILTER CHANGE AT THE EVERY 200 HOUR MARK. I AM WONDERING IF IT WOULD BE FINE TO NOW DO THE 2007 B7800 THE SAME AS THE 2012 B3200 (EVERY 400 HOURS INSTEAD OF 300 HOURS) WITH THE NEW SYNTHETIC SUDT2 OIL. I HAVE ASKED MY DEALER AND KUBOTA AND THEY SAY DO AS THE "MANUAL" SAYS, BUT NEVER SAY WHY. WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK AND WHAT ARE YOU OWNERS OF SOME OF THE LITTLE BIT OLDER TRACTORS DOING NOW WITH TODAY'S OILS? THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR INPUT.

 

[Soundguy]

i really don't consider a 2007 tractor older.

I think i'd stick to what the manual says on that new tractor.....

you are compairing 2 different machines too.

 

[MHarryE]

Kubota has published an updated change interval on their web site. Didn't check yours so I don't know if it is listed but it's worth checking.

 

[Texasmark]

I have a real problem with this subject.

I have an 8 year old tractor with a FEL and 800 hours on it. Not what you would call wearing it out. It doesn't see harsh environments. It's kept under a shed. I am the only operator. I always run it till the temp gauge gets up pretty good every time I start it....no turn it on run it for 5 min and shut it off. I live in Texas. It gets an annual workout preparing about 7 acres for a hay crop and that's about it.

The oil sump is 15 gallons for a 65 hp tractor. Recommended change interval is 300 hours. Last season I changed the oil filter and it was spotless, 2nd time since new. The oil that spilled out of the sump in the process was spotless, with no odor other than the fact that it was petroleum.

I use the recommended premium replacement oil that meets all the OEM specks, like J20C for example, made for multifunction wet brake, hyd, shuttle, and all the toys of today when topping off is necessary.


Yeah I spent $37k for the thing and yeah that's a lot of $$$$. But changing oil for the sake of change just seems like a waste of money and resources so I don't. Opinion: When an OEM posts recommended practices, regardless of the subject, he is putting out the word for the world of users in all environments, under all conditions etc. etc. I mean this thing was built in Korea where they have flooded rice fields and things of the sort. The R1 tires on it in the brochures have huge lugs for the task.

I realize that "common sense isn't very common" to quote a phrase someone else uses on a different forum, but it just doesn't make sense to me to change just for the sake of change. So I don't. Maybe in another 8 years I will regret it, or another 16, but I'll probably be dead by then. Oh well.

Mark

 

[namesray]

surprised more people haven't jumped on this one. a lot have somewhat older tractors and the oils today have changed quite a bit and I have come across quite a few here that follow the book on tractor oil changes (including me) and I am just surprised more people don't question this like I do.

any way I am on an on going quest to try to save some money today. I know the tractors cost thousands and I will be only saving few hundreds, but I feel there is a sensible alternative that will still work, or at least I "think" there "might" be. I am just researching and thought I would try tbn.

 

[namesray]

another question. what goes bad with the trans/hydraulic fluid? everytime I did the manual required changes, it comes out as clear as the day I poured it in. the b7800 has 1430 hours and the b3200 has 523 hours, so a few changes to base it on. what does go bad, and why would one tractor require a change 100 hours sooner then another very very similar one? (b7800=same filters, same fluid, same amount of fluid, same hst, same 3ph. as the b3200) thanks again

 

[MHarryE]

another question. what goes bad with the trans/hydraulic fluid? everytime I did the manual required changes, it comes out as clear as the day I poured it in. the b7800 has 1430 hours and the b3200 has 523 hours, so a few changes to base it on. what does go bad, and why would one tractor require a change 100 hours sooner then another very very similar one? (b7800=same filters, same fluid, same amount of fluid, same hst, same 3ph. as the b3200) thanks again

Very good question. I worked in Engineering at Cat. Most equipment went out with straight SAE 10 hydraulic oil. Change interval when I started with them in 1989 was 1,000 hours. When I retired in 2009 they had released their new Advanced 10 hydraulic oil and it the recommended change interval 4,000 hours with oil sampling, 2,000 hours without sampling.

So why do tractors require such frequent changes? I question the need, but I am going by the book and dumping perfectly good looking oil into the county recycling tank. I sampled my new Kubota at the first change and the sample results showed it was like new with almost no wear particles and no deterioration. I will continue sampling for my own interest (I also share results with my dealer), but I will also continue to change oil per recommended hours although I may bend the rules on hours if the samples continue okay.

 

[SwingOak]

One thing to be careful about when substituting synthetics for lubes that are not - synthetics are slipperier and the viscosity does not break down significantly, which is why they last longer and can extend the change interval. However, the anti-wear characteristics can work against you, sometimes catastrophically. Bearings can slip instead of roll, causing major damage. This is especially true with non-ball bearings. It is probably best to use lubricants that are recommended by the manufacturer, and if you would like to switch to something else, make a call to the manufacturer and check to see if there would be any issues.. That free call might just save you thousands!

 

[Texasmark]

My tractor has a massive front axle containing 2.5 gallons of multifunction fluid. After using it for some time I decided to check the oil; each outer gearbox adjacent to the tire has a fill plug with a dipstick. I needed to add some oil to bring it up to spec....still had factory fill with no visible leaks on an 8 year old tractor. I didn't have any of the recommended multifunction fluid, but I did have some Amsoil full syn multifunction fluid I bought for my ZT....so I topped it off with that. Almost immediately I noticed that it was significantly easier to engage M4WD. Pretty much supports the slippery comments for me.

Called Cummins when I bought the thing and asked them if I could use Rot T 5W-40 full syn in it (B 3.3). Their comment was: "Sir, your engine would love to have that for your oil". My 2011 Chevy P/U has a 100k mile power train warranty. My owners manual has change recommendations for the engine oil which is specified to be "GM Dexos". Ha! If you pick up a jug of Mobil 1 (0W-30 is what I use), guess what? There is a Dexos logo on the container. So much for that. No listed fluid changes for tranny or diff. You don't suppose all of a sudden GM started using synthetics for all the power train and that's how we get this kind of a warranty? Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

One last comment. I do a lot of mowing with air cooled mowers. I used to use premium dino oil and had to change a couple of times a season due to it getting dirty, with filters and all on fairly new equipment. Using WW 10W-30 full syn, I go the entire season and for light duty equip sometimes 2 years without the oil getting dirty enough to change.

Never had a problem with it, however I have heard of spinning a sleeve bearing and have heard of balls not spinning in ball bearings. Never happened to me.

My 2c,
Mark

 

[SwingOak]

Years ago I had a K5 Blazer. Three weeks after I bought it used from a GM dealer, we found out the block was cracked, and the dealer replaced it. A bunch of stuff broke or had problems when they were swapping engines, and as it ended up they replaced the complete engine and everything that attached to it, including the transmission and exhaust system.

When I picked it up, I asked how soon I should change the oil and they said 3000 miles was fine, but not to use synthetic oil until there was at least 5000 miles on it. When I asked why, I was told that it would not break in properly, "So you're telling me if I use synthetic oil, my engine won't wear." And the answer basically was that was true. So when I got to my second oil change at 5000 miles, I switched to Mobil 1. When I sold it 130,000 miles later that truck still ran smooth, started easy, and didn't burn a drop of oil. I use Mobil 1 in all my vehicles.