Synthetic Engine Oil Base Stocks

[DeereMann]

I was re-educating myself on the sorry state of synthetic engine oil base stocks last week. Since SAE got out of the 'synthetic' definition business, and Exxon bought Mobil (1998), it seems the race to cheapen synthetic engine oil base stocks continues. Not that I think there is anything inherently wrong with 'right-sizing' a product, but it seems deceptive marketing practices are at play also.

The original synthetic engine base oil stocks were PAO (poly alpha olephins), long chain hydrocarbons constructed from petroleum gases such as ethylene & methane. These provided excellent lubrication quality & resistance to shear down under load & temperature. API classifies these as "Group IV" today.

Now all the synthetic engine oils are classified API "Group III", which are nothing but highly refined, and/or severely hydrotreated/cracked crude oils. These operations may be a "synthesis" of sorts, but they are NOT constructed from gaseous hydrocarbons!

So what? Well, these are ok, but it is very misleading what you are buying. They do not lubricate as well, as long, or as cleanly as the original PAO's. And the big oil companies are evasive & misleading in their advertising & tech topics, IMO. Because they know they have degraded the quality. One erased blog from Exxon/Mobil talked about how supply of manufactured hydrocarbon base stocks could not be met, blah, blah, blah.

Big oil Co.'s say "well, they're good enough". Maybe so, but don't cover up what you've done! BITOG is full of this banter, depressing.

Then Pennzoil comes along with their "Platinum / Ultra" (Shell) engine oils that claim 'made from natural gas'. But if they were, they would be Group IV, not III. Claim is less deposits than de-graded Mobil 1, so I'm trying that for 1st time in my gasoline engines.

Ok, so I'm ****-retentive/OCD. I can't help it as an engineer & former lubricant field service rep. for Mobil Oil in the 80's.

Any insights welcomed.

*end rant* :hissyfit:

 

[Wolfy]

They may not be as good as they once were, but they are still better than regular oil. But regular oil has come a long ways as well.

 

[2458n]

Thank you for the heads up on Mobile -1. This is all I have used for over 32 years. I called and checked before using it in my Kubota because it did not say anything about diesel engines when it first came out. At one time STP used to have a oil out that was advertised to be good for 25,000 miles between changes and I ran it in a 620 Datsun pickup truck until it was off the market. Never went the 25,000 between changes but did alot of highway miles with it. It is not a new trick to cheapen a product; but as a marketing major in college I should have known.

 

[3930dave]

It's become a bit of a Shell game here..... sorry, couldn't resist :laughing:

And.... I'm not picking on Shell..... I've used plenty of T6.

It's just marketing noise mostly; serves well to increase margins on Grp III oils. Last I heard, Germany held the line on this.... it's still verboten to call a group III a synthetic in their market.

I think one of the values of BITOG is being able to match actual Used Oil Analysis reports to your own application. I've come to appreciate the real data presented there.

I've used (and still do) plenty of synthetics, but will also use conventional oil at times too. We OCD types tend to want to find the "best" product out there, but in reality, unless you are really pushing the limits, even some conventional oils test out (UOA wise) really well. Pennzoil Yellow Bottle, with its good shot of moly built in, comes to mind.

As you do enough reading on BITOG, the other thing that becomes clear is the characteristics of certain engines. Ex. - Subaru boxer 4s tend to beat the heck out of oil, showing up in the Shearing results. Is it a good idea to stretch OCI on one of these Sub engines.... probably not, even with most "synthetics".

And.... I think a trap some people fall into is thinking they can automatically stretch their OCIs, just because they bought a "synthetic". I'm thinking of retired people around here that spend most of the Winter just driving 5km trips for groceries.... that kind of problem led to a discussion on BITOG about the need for an Ultra Severe Service category......

The Glass Half Full way of looking at this noise is that since you understand the difference between Group III and IV, if you really need/want to, you know which product to pick.

Rgds, D.

 

[ksluy]

When you look at the new tractor oil change recommendations, like 500hr's, I cant make myself go that long. I am a car dealer and I think of the BMW oil change (drive it till the light comes on) and I see more BMW motor problems at the Factory BMW sale than any other car make. I change every 100hr's I don't care what the book say's.

 

[Mace Canute]

DeereMann, I use Texas Refinery Corp oil, grease and fuel conditioner. What's your educated opinion on these TRC products?

 

[DeereMann]

They may not be as good as they once were, but they are still better than regular oil. But regular oil has come a long ways as well.

Yeah, I know. Just a frustrated perfectionist/excellence rant. Thanks for listening.

 

[sixdogs]

DeereMan--excellent info

 

[DeereMann]

DeereMann, I use Texas Refinery Corp oil, grease and fuel conditioner. What's your educated opinion on these TRC products?

Sorry, not familiar with those. For diesels the blogosphere seems to stay with Mobil 1 Turbodiesel 5W-40, Shell Rotella T6. Some have access to Mobil Delvac 1 (HD trucks) & Delo as well. Visit BITOG if you really want to get into it! Or ask dave3930 - he is in CA too.

 

[DeereMann]

Thanks 3930dave - I was hoping you'd weigh in.