Synthetic Vs petroleum oil for engine break in ?

[oldpilgrim]

most new cars/trucks come with synth right from the factory, so i dont think synth is an issue at "breakin".

 

[Jabonee]

I can't seem to find it right now. But remember a chart for the Kohler Command that showed the 10w-30 20w50 oil up to 100 degrees, and the 10w30 synthetic starting at 40 and going down. It also appears that they have recently updated the service manual and owners manual to include synthetic oils. Synthetics are discussed in owners manuals for engines that were discontinued years ago.

As a side note there is a service bulletin discussing oil consumption in the cv940-100 caused by a faulty breather reed. Doesn't say ecv, but found something including the ecv about warranty not including the reed issue.

Thanks Randy t and all those who replied. Mower will be coming in this week and I will reconnoiter it . First order will be to check reed and loose the synthetic oil. :thumbsup:

 

[Copperhead]

I would wager there are some mineral oils on the market that are superior to some of the synthetics .

Not sure about mineral being superior in some instance, but GTL (natural gas to liquid) derived base oils can give synthetics a run for their money. The whole argument either way is fun, but really not worth spending a lot of time on nowadays. All base oils are pretty good. What really makes a oil good, better, or best nowadays centers around the additive package that makes up a motor oil, which is a substantial portion of what you get in a motor oil. A base oil, conventional or synthetic, can only do so much, and there are some things it can't do at all. Hence the additive package. Base oil cannot control acid generated from combustion, soot, detergent cleaning of components, etc. And there are special needs of friction reducers and extreme pressure modifiers in many engine components that base oil alone cannot provide totally. A base oil, conventional or synthetic is clear as water. The color you see in the motor oil is all from the additive package.

About the only thing that is worth considering in a base oil selection is the NOACK (burn off) rate. The lower the better, generally. Synthetics and GTL command the lowest NOACK ratings. For instance, the Pennzoil conventional "yellow bottle" 10w30 has a NOACK rating that can match the best Group IV PAO synthetic. It's base oil is GTL. So while it is technically not a synthetic and still a "conventional", it puts some synthetics to shame. And it has a stellar add pack to boot. I don't use it, but the facts are what they are.

I switch to synthetic or synthetic blend in all my stuff at the first oil change.

 

[DEWFPO]

Synthetic oils typically have higher vaporization temperatures so burn off is typically less, not more.

I would check his fill level first. Check the spark plug(s) for oil on the plug. If it's clean he likely not burning oil but leaking it. Theres all kinds of places it could be leaking from. Does he mow on slopes steeper then the engine was designed for? If it's burning oil at the rate he is saying it is, you should be able to smell it in the exhaust even if you can't see it.

DEWFPO

 

[GManBart]

Doesn't matter anymore if you use synthetic or standard oil for break-in unless they built the motor like it is 1970 (plain cast iron rings and very rough cylinder finish).

You can't really make that blanket statement. I bought a new Hobart engine driven welder not long ago and the manual very specifically stated that you shouldn't use synthetic oil until the first oil change (can't recall, but think it was like 40 or 50 hours).

 

[vsteel]

You can't really make that blanket statement. I bought a new Hobart engine driven welder not long ago and the manual very specifically stated that you shouldn't use synthetic oil until the first oil change (can't recall, but think it was like 40 or 50 hours).

So either they built the motor like they did in 1970 or no one bothered to update the manual in many many years. Most engines now days don't care and in your example I would bet it just is a documentation issue. Engines built with modern techniques don't have that really rough finish that has to be worn in together to get that glaze. Modern cylinders are finished very smooth and the coatings on rings are designed to wear with that very smooth finish.

As mentioned before as well, the difference between synthetics and conventional oils isn't near as great as it used to be. Compare an old SD grade oil and a synthetic, now you have a real difference.

 

[GManBart]

So either they built the motor like they did in 1970 or no one bothered to update the manual in many many years. Most engines now days don't care and in your example I would bet it just is a documentation issue. Engines built with modern techniques don't have that really rough finish that has to be worn in together to get that glaze. Modern cylinders are finished very smooth and the coatings on rings are designed to wear with that very smooth finish.

They haven't made that welder long enough for it to be a problem with updating the manual.

It's possible they're making the engine with old technology, but there's really no way for any of us to know that for certain. What I do know is that the manual specifies a period of time that the factory oil should be used before switching to synthetic.

They may be wrong, or overly cautious, but not following the manual would be pretty dumb. My point was simply that you can't make a blanket statement like you did and be correct. There very well might be other applications where manufacturers specify a break in period using conventional oil and have a very good reason for doing so.

BTW, the engine in my welder is a 23hp Kohler, and the OP was asking about a Kohler engine in a SCAG mower. That's largely why I brought it up. If Kohler specifies conventional oil for break in on one of their engines, it's not crazy they might do so on another.

 

[GManBart]

Kohler's FAQ includes oil requirements and break in oil:

http://www.kohlerengines.com/maintenance/faqs.htm

 

[vsteel]

They haven't made that welder long enough for it to be a problem with updating the manual.

It's possible they're making the engine with old technology, but there's really no way for any of us to know that for certain. What I do know is that the manual specifies a period of time that the factory oil should be used before switching to synthetic.

They may be wrong, or overly cautious, but not following the manual would be pretty dumb. My point was simply that you can't make a blanket statement like you did and be correct. There very well might be other applications where manufacturers specify a break in period using conventional oil and have a very good reason for doing so.

BTW, the engine in my welder is a 23hp Kohler, and the OP was asking about a Kohler engine in a SCAG mower. That's largely why I brought it up. If Kohler specifies conventional oil for break in on one of their engines, it's not crazy they might do so on another.

That is why I said it shouldn't be a problem unless they made the motor differently. Kohler must be making them different but even now I doubt that would cause an issue. Yes you should follow the manual but if they messed up and started with synthetic I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. From the original post if they were worried that the synthetic caused improper break in, then all you need to do is run a compression test. Losing as much oil as they said they were losing, it should have very little compression because it isn't making a good seal at all.

As far as documentation you would be surprised at how much large companies cut and paste from their old documents to save having to start from scratch.

 

[RandyT]

Kohler's FAQ includes oil requirements and break in oil:

http://www.kohlerengines.com/maintenance/faqs.htm

the new updated service manuals have no mention of break in requirements or not using synthetic before 50 hours. That was old information that appears in the owners and service manuals. this has actually changed since January of this year.