Motor oil and other fuel additives

   / Motor oil and other fuel additives #1  

nosliw

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My brand new John Deere 990 should be here on Friday, and I got to thinking about the fuel I'll be puting in it.

In my Duramax truck, I run 2 or 3 quarts of cheap Wal-Mart 2Stroke oil, 9 or 10 ounces of Stanadyne Performance Formula, and top it off with 30 or so gallons of petrol.

Anyone here using anything in their fuel tanks besides off-the-shelf additives and diesel?

Once I get the plumbing manifold complete, I'll be filtering and burning used hydraulic oil, used gasoline engine oil, and maybe some ATF if I can find some that is clean enough. Burning it in my truck, that is. Probably no more thanl 5 gallons of each, though.

What can the tractor's fuel system handle? I'm sure it's tough, but I don't know anything about it. I don't DARE to run straight ULSD in anything I own. Horrible stuff.

Any opinions/experiences/cents are welcome.

If the conclusion is that it's not a good idea, I make biodiesel so I'll just run that 100%. Enough lubricity for me.
 
   / Motor oil and other fuel additives #2  
Oil is best left where it should be, in the crankcase. The only thing you end up doing is increasing deposits in your combustion chamber and on your exhaust valves by burning oil that has "non" flamable additives.

You mention that you use 2 stroke oil, that's fine but if your going to buy something to add to your fuel why don't you just buy a fuel additive? They increase the lubricity of the fuel, deal with water and wax gelling issues, help to actually clean the combustion chamber and injectors thereby possibly increasing fuel economy and stabalize the fuel during long term storage.

I make my own BioDiesel and I still treat it with additive, just not for the lubricity benefit, the fuel has enough of that on it's own. I use TRC's DZL-PEP year round and their DZL-PEP Arctic in the winter to raise the CFPP (gel) point.
 
   / Motor oil and other fuel additives
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Update, on oil in fuel... - Diesel Place

this isn't the original thread that i was searching for, but it has some fairly good information on it.

i mainly use 2stroke. it's cheaper than gas motor oil where i am, and i don't have any means to do the proper filtering anyway.

as far as deposits and such, i'm not 100% sure that will be a problem. the tractor engines work HARD for LONG periods of time. i doubt that excessive carbon buildup on injectors is an issue with these things.

i don't know jack about tractors, but have been lurking here a few weeks trying to prepare myself. if i'm wrong on any of this let me know.

i don't think that D2 + a few OZs of a fuel additive that flows like water is going to properly lubricate the fuel system.

not a problem in my or any ones duramax, ford, or cummins trucks. just a question as to whether our tractors can handle it.

what does the fuel system on the JD990 look like?
 
   / Motor oil and other fuel additives #4  
for fuel in my kubota i run as much BioDiesel as I can make but having 3 oil-burners i go through diesel quick. i still can get 500ppm sulfer red diesel for the tractor but the Jetta and DMax get a ULSD and BioD mix if i dont have enough biod to fill up with. All of my fuel no matter what it is get a generous dose of PowerService White bottle. I run WIX filters thoughout and Shell Rotella 15w40 in the Truck and Tractor and Rotella 5w40 synthethic in the Jetta.

I have over 50,000 combined miles and several thousand hours on blends up to and including 100% BioD with no fuel system problems, and no filter issues
 
   / Motor oil and other fuel additives #5  
"i don't think that D2 + a few OZs of a fuel additive that flows like water is going to properly lubricate the fuel system."

The viscosity of the additive has nothing to do with it's performance as a lubricant. It's the additives in it that do the lubricating.

Cummins makes a oil maintenance system (Cummins Centinel Advanced Engine Oil Management System) that goes on over the road tractors. It is basically a oil drum that went behind the cab and a control system that gradually sucked some oil out of the oil pan, replaced it with oil from the oil tank and put the old oil in the fuel tank. It is designed to reduce how often you have to change your oil, oil changes are every 525,000 miles. I have had the heads off of Cummins engines that had these systems on and there was a noticeable amount of build up on the piston crowns, exhaust valves and piston ring groves compared to engines that did not. You couldn't pay me to use one of these systems on my engine. Like I said, engine oil has one place, the crankcase. The non flamable additives in engine oil end up sticking where they shouldn't. Ever seen one of those Chrysler smoke bomb mini van's? There burning oil and if you have ever seen the exhaust valves on one of those you would know what I'm talking about when I say deposits. Is that a extreme example, sure, but it shows what happens when you try to burn something that doesn't burn.

The 2 stroke oil does not have the non flamable additives found in regular 4 cycle engine oil so it would not cause a problem. I was just curious why you used it instead of a fuel additive. Any good additive should cost nothing if used properly. As long as it can keep injectors clean and atomizing the fuel properly it should save at least 1.5% in fuel economy which is enough to pay for the additive.
 
   / Motor oil and other fuel additives
  • Thread Starter
#6  
no reason you should see any problems doing that.

might want to reconsider the PowerService, though. i use stanadyne.

GM approves it, and it's a demulsifier.

you know what water does when it gets to 25,000psi? can you say sandblaster? :eek:


just my opinon of course (must i keep saying that? just know that when i talk it's all in my opinion :D )
 
   / Motor oil and other fuel additives #7  
That's why I don't use additives that are emulsifiers. Everything I use is a demulsifier.
 
   / Motor oil and other fuel additives
  • Thread Starter
#8  
DieselPower said:
"i don't think that D2 + a few OZs of a fuel additive that flows like water is going to properly lubricate the fuel system."

The viscosity of the additive has nothing to do with it's performance as a lubricant. It's the additives in it that do the lubricating.

Cummins makes a oil maintenance system (Cummins Centinel Advanced Engine Oil Management System) that goes on over the road tractors. It is basically a oil drum that went behind the cab and a control system that gradually sucked some oil out of the oil pan, replaced it with oil from the oil tank and put the old oil in the fuel tank. It is designed to reduce how often you have to change your oil, oil changes are every 525,000 miles. I have had the heads off of Cummins engines that had these systems on and there was a noticeable amount of build up on the piston crowns, exhaust valves and piston ring groves compared to engines that did not. You couldn't pay me to use one of these systems on my engine. Like I said, engine oil has one place, the crankcase. The non flamable additives in engine oil end up sticking where they shouldn't. Ever seen one of those Chrysler smoke bomb mini van's? There burning oil and if you have ever seen the exhaust valves on one of those you would know what I'm talking about when I say deposits. Is that a extreme example, sure, but it shows what happens when you try to burn something that doesn't burn.

The 2 stroke oil does not have the non flamable additives found in regular 4 cycle engine oil so it would not cause a problem. I was just curious why you used it instead of a fuel additive. Any good additive should cost nothing if used properly. As long as it can keep injectors clean and atomizing the fuel properly it should save at least 1.5% in fuel economy which is enough to pay for the additive.


very good point(s).

here is a few reasons i run that thick gooey stuff in my truck-

balance rates for injectors were way out of whack before (i would see +4 to -5 on some) and after the 'lube job' they are all within 1. injectors are happy about that.

fuel mileage has gone up, at least 1 or 2mpg. highway mpg's BTW. i'm happy about that.

it's cheap. (1/2 gallon of stanadyne @ $25 versus 1 gallon of 2stroke oil @ $8) my wallet is happy about that.

truck is SUPER quiet. the dmax was quiet in the first place, then got loud (4" straight pipe) then got almost as quiet as stock @ idle.


but like i said, and others have said, if you think D2 + fuel additive off-the-shelf is so great at lubricating, why not run it in your crankcase? of course you wouldn't, and i wouldn't want it to be the sole lube keeping my injectors, fuel pump, and all associated components alive.

i didn't start this thread to debate whether or not it's okay to run it in my truck.. i know it's okay, and i'm doing it. so are many cummins and powerstrokes and other oilburners.

i started it to see the opinion of tractor owners about puting it in a tractor.

the replies and arguements seem about the same as they do for trucks, so i'm starting to think it's about the same situation.

thoughts? keep 'em coming.
 
   / Motor oil and other fuel additives
  • Thread Starter
#9  
another thing to consider is tolerances within injector.

maybe it wouldn't be as great as an idea because of the size of the engine.

hmmmmmm

there HAS to be someone out there who does this and has their own opinion.

if i can't find anything out before friday i'll just do regular D2 + stanadyne. hasn't let me down yet. i have too much work to do now that the tractor is coming to do the research.

hmmmmmmm
 
   / Motor oil and other fuel additives #10  
"but like i said, and others have said, if you think D2 + fuel additive off-the-shelf is so great at lubricating, why not run it in your crankcase? of course you wouldn't, and i wouldn't want it to be the sole lube keeping my injectors, fuel pump, and all associated components alive."

Interesting analogy. So, would you run gear oil in your engine? Engine oil in your automatic transmission? Thicker is not alway's better. Diesel fuel systems are designed to be lubricated by a very light viscosity fluid, hence light viscosity additives. If Robert Bosh, Caterpillar, Cummins and Detroit thought they needed a higher viscosity liquid to lubricate their fuel systems don't you think they would be telling you to add oil to thicken it up? Probably why they don't.

As far as cost go. The additive I use cost me $34.60 per gallon. My average fleet fuel economy went up 4.8% when I started to treat the fuel in 2005. Additive ended up costing nothing and on top of that saving me money in fuel saving's.

"truck is SUPER quiet. the dmax was quiet in the first place, then got loud (4" straight pipe) then got almost as quiet as stock @ idle."

Well that's just wrong. Didn't you know diesel engines are supposed to be loud and obnoxious. How am I supposed to rattle the neighbors out of bead if it's quiet. :)
 
 
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