Dirt/Gravel Driveway Major Maintenance

[flyer]

First, you are right... trial and experience is a good teacher.

I'll try to answer your question as follows:

Scarifier shanks typically have several holes in them so that they can be set at several different depths... all the way from out of the dirt to maybe 5 inches down. It depends on the hp of your tractor, number of shanks and the material you are digging into as to what the result is.

Now, the back of the box blade has one blade facing forward and one backward and is kinda like a backwards and forwards facing "C " back to back. Except the point of the C on the bottom is not curved up... it will dig into the ground. However, this digging action will ONLY occur if it actually is tipped to engage the ground. Think about what happens with a wood chisel and different angles against the wood. With the top link made short, the back end of the box lifts up and the leading edge of the front blade will cut down into the material. On the other hand, if you were to back up with it set this way, the rear blade is tipped up and held away from the ground by the front blade and the forward blade slides since the C is not cutting into the material.

Now, think about making the top link exactly the right length so that both the front and back blades are touching the ground. This setting will give a smoothing action and the blade will cut ONLY stuff that happens to rise up significantly above the general level of the hard material you are going over.

The point is, the angle of the front and rear blades is key to getting a cutting... or smoothing action... going forward or back. The scarifiers simply cut gouges in the ground... loosening the ground enough that the forward facing blade can cut down into the material. The angle that actually works best changes with many factors... thus, it is oh-so-handy to be able to adjust this angle from the seat using a hydraulic top link.

I wish I had photos... makes explaining much easier... maybe a buddy of yours has a box blade and you can get him to show you how it works.

Thanks tj! Great info. That makes a lot of sense. The rear blade is basically for smoothing? I can't imagine wanting to cut with the rear blade going backwards without the scarifiers loosening the material, but maybe that's for a much different application. Thanks much!

 

[flyer]

I have a similar size driveway to yours, and I just purchashed a Grademaster for maintenance. I do own a box blade, and have used it to reshape some areas of the drive, but for maintenance the Grademaster is the right tool for the job. It levels the gravel, pulls in the edges, fills potholes, and puts a slight crown in the road.

Interesting ... looks great for maintenance. How far down will it cut? What's the price range on these things?

 

[Jaybr]

Interesting ... looks great for maintenance. How far down will it cut? What's the price range on these things?

It cuts about like my box blade, but doesn't drag the cut material far just lays it back on top nice and smooth. I had some good washboarding and a few potholes that where maybe 3" deep, all of that gone in one pass. I haven't tried it on a pure dirt road yet, but will soon as some of the roads at the hunt club need maintenance.



I paid $1000 for a 6' model. I also looked at the RoadBoss, but they wanted $2400 for same size.

 

[tractorworks]

I'll second the grademaster. It makes the job so much easier and really requires less experience. Slight tilt to pull your edges to the center, depending on depth of potholes may require a few passes. Same as a boxblade you use toplink to adjust angle of cut. Seldom use boxblade anymore.

 

[skipmarcy]

For grading work you'll use that rear blade alot more than you think - think mini bulldozer !! Pushing rocks & debris out of the way, lengthening your toplink to kick your front blade up will let the rear blade smooth well. Also, you're not going to "dig" those potholes are you? The boxblade will drag a load of material right over it and fill them in for you !! Don't make a bigger hole, fill the one you have in. I very rarely use my scarifiers, if your ground has any size to the rocks and/or good-sized roots, it will stop you pretty easily. I agree on the hyd. toplink, best investment I made. Don't have hyd. tilt, it would be nice at times but not enough to me to warrant the price, I can reach my manual tilt from the seat so the few times I've needed to tilt it was easy enough.

 

[john_bud]

I've got a driveway that is about a quater mile long. It goes up a gradual slope for about 900 feet (pretty much 90 degrees to the contour, e.g., very little left/right grade, a miniscule amount of grade), then makes a 90 degree turn up to the house for the other ~300 feet. There is a shallow ditch on the right of the first 900 feet. The driveway is mostly dirt, with some stone left, although a lot of it has been "plowed" away or is in the hard earth.

I've attached a crude drawing of what the cross-section of the driveway looks like. The bottom line is, the crown is about gone, the shoulders are higher than the crown, and you can see obvious wheel ruts. The result is, when it rains and melting snow, at least one massive rut has formed (near the bottom: the water slowly builds up from the top because it doesn't get off the road!). The second (Very) crude drawing shows a view looking at the bottom of the driveway (Where it meets the road), looking from the side. As you can see, the driveway is much lower than the road, resulting in puddle of standing water for weeks after a rain.

Hopefully, that gives you the context of my issues. Now I'm looking to fix all that. I've been searching the forum and found a lot of good tips, but I'm still wondering if I'm thinking the right things for "my" project. First, I have an 855 with a FEL, but that's it. From my researching and reading, I'm leaning towards the following: buying a box blade and fitting my 3-point hitch with a top and tilt (vs. the other leading candidate, a rear blade (and possibly the top and tilt)). If the box blade is the right thing, is there a way to do it without the top and tilt or is it far more worth fitting the topand tilt?

If that is indeed the right thing to do (probably pushing $1K btw from what I can tell), then I have a lot of follow up questions since I'm unfamiliar with hydraulics and top and tilt (but don't let that lean you towards getting someone else to do it ... i know i can figure it out, just need a place to start). But first off, maybe I should leave it at the above so I can settle on the general approach before delving into that.

Thanks in advance!!

I don't think you have enough tractor for the "deconstruction" phase of the job. According to your signature, you have 28 hp. According to tractordata.com;

John Deere 855

Years produced: 1986 - 1998
Original price: $16,000 (1998)

Power:

Engine: 24 hp [17.9 kW]
PTO (rated): 19 hp [14.2 kW]

3-Point Hitch:

Rear Hitch Category: I
Rear lift: 785 (at 24") lbs [356 kg]

Dimensions:

Weight: 1,890 lbs [857 kg]
Wheelbase: 64 inches [162 cm]




To do road work you will want a 5 1/2 foot wide box blade (minimum). 7 or 8' is better. For weight, you will want it to be 150 pounds per foot of width (minimum) with 200# per foot better. That means you want a 66" wide box that is 900# at a minimum. Your tractor can only lift 785". The largest box blade you can likely handle would be 48" wide and be 250-300 pounds. They don't made HD or Industrial versions of 48" wide box blades.

The same analysis for back blades. Road renovation takes a serious blade in the 800-1200# range and 8' wide.

Sorry to be such a Buzz Kill...

I think your best bet is to have the work sub'ed out. Then get a grademaster or equivalent to do maintenance. You have plenty of tractor to keep the driveway nice, but (IMHO) not enough to rip out 600 yards of old driveway and soil. And ripping out the old, putting down fabric then filling with layers of good DOT spec base is the thing you should do to make it a permanent good road.

Yeah, I know - folks here will spend an entire summer working at it with a 4' wide implement and get 'er done. But seriously, that's gonna give your tractor a beating, eat up all your spare time and cost about as much in fuel & purchased implements & aggravation as sub'ing it out. Also as a starter project, it's a real mouth full and could be more than you want to chew. Again, just my opinion - freely given and worth every penny.


jb

 

[jbrumberg]

flyer:

I agree with John Bud. I played around with my 250+ foot (total) driveway for 13 years and still had problems with NE's mud season and drainage. I finally "bit the bullet" and contracted the job out to a heavy equipment operator. With his very large industrial TLB and a midsized excavator working in tandem they removed ~170yards of dirt, mud, rocks, and some huge boulders. They replaced the debris with geotextile fabric and ~180 yards of ballast rock topped with crusher run. I did not have a drainage problem this year , and I still get to work/finish my driveway with my own tractor . It was worth the money. Jay

 

[patrick_g]

A box blade will allow you to shape dirt much better than a back blade. A back blade is frustratingly impotent when trying to work undisturbed or packed dirt. A box with adjustable (raise/lower) scarifiers (ripper teeth) is far superior for this task. This is not the only thing you will use a box blade for once you get used to it.

Ditches on both sides of the drive and a good crown are essential. If time and $ were more available then I'd suggest a dozer to excavate the sides of the drive and use the removed dirt to bring the drive up above the surrounding grade. With little $ to toss around just go for the ditches and a good crown.

There is no MAGIC solution. If you want cheap then you go gravel and try to not scrape it all off during snow removal. There is a cure for that and it is called paving (blacktop, concrete or ... but that isn't sheap) It is imperative that you have a good crown to get the water off the road.

No matter what the tractor implement discussed or comparison made there will always be someone who will disagree with any particular suggestion. For the guy who has never had a TNT and is used to not being able to adjust the box blade dynamically, he will not usually see the BIG ADVANTAGE. Some folks get off on being able to sort of get by with minimal tools like it was some sort of contest. Also there is the effect where you will find that a guy with just a hammer tends to see every job looking like a nail.

For your task the box is better. TNT makes the box blade very much more productive and you less fatigued. Can you do the job with a rear blade? Depends... is the dirt in the road quite soft? Can yo do the job without TNT? Sure you can! You can dig the drainage ditches along side the drive with a teaspoon too but it is not as productive as some other methods.

TNT enhances operator control of nearly every 3ph implement. I even raise and lower my pasture sprayer while driving to clear a shrub or whatever with a spray bar and then lower it down again. I raise and lower the brush hog with the TNT many many times per hour. I can't even begin to contemplate not having TNT for my use of the brush hog. I can tilt the mower to better fit the contour if I am driving along the edge of something like a dam or whatever.

If I didn't have TNT I would still tractor and get stuff done but in my ignorance I just wouldn't be as productive. It isn't how hard you work or how difficult the job is (or you make it) but how much you get done. TNT is luxury so far as saving you a lot of personal effort but it also is a productivity enhancer that goes beyond saving a little sweat. It is just not possible to drive a tractor and also make continuous adjustments to a manually adjustable 3PH.

I can adjust my box blade to feather a string of gravel much more smoothly with the hydraulic top than is possible with the lower arms. I can dynamically adjust my blade angle to meet ever changing conditions and cut into dirt more effectively. No one with a manual adjustment can possibly adjust there equipment to meet dynamically varying conditions.

I can tilt the box so far that it will actually start digging a trench along side of the drive and in a couple seconds tilt it the other way or level it or adjust for a slight crowning cut or... Although it is theoretically possible to duplicate adjustable angles with manual adjust, no normal person will work that way as most of the work session would be manual adjusting with almost no time doing real work.

My box blade has cutting blades facing backward as well as forward and I have used it to plow snow although it is not a terrific snow plow for deep snow. Most of the parking lots around the malls out here are cleared with small compact tractors using FEL and or box blade.

Pat

 

[texasjohn]

Hmm... John_Bud's info re size of your tractor is key... I hadn't snapped to this being a category I discussion.

That settles it for me... with your current implements, the task is NOT practical for you to attempt... hire it done or get significantly more tractor and matching attachments. It's just too little tractor and too light equiment.

 

[STORMTRQQPER]

If you are only doing your own driveway, don't bother installing the TNT. It's a lot of figuring out & expense for one project. Just use the manual top & side links. As far as a box blad vs a rear blade, the box blade will be far more useful. First of all, you will need to drop the scarifiers down & score up the driveway 3"-5" deep in order to reclaim the gravel that is hard packed & redistributed to start out with. Don't turn up too much of the base rock, though. That's a sign that you are deep enough. After loosening it all up, drop one side of the grader about 4" lower than the other side & be sure to get about a 3" crown in the middle. That will at least force the water to run to the sides of the driveway. If your driveway is as low as you say it is below the land around it, you most likely will need quite a bit of gravel to build it up. Water will always find the lowest point. This is what we do for a living. For more info, read the complete process of driveway restoration on index