Backhoe Backhoe and safe operation of same

[patrickg]

Mark,
Yet another valid point to consider. How stable is a stand alone?

This evening I visited the closest Woods dealer that Woods supplied me, Dinsmore Tractor in Shawnee, OK. They let me have a photo copy of the 6500/7500 Woods GroundBreakers general purpose 3PH mounted backhoe catalog page. Say what? 3PH mounted? Quote from Woods marketing guy, "The subframe for the Woods 7500 backhoe is designed to have clearance for installation on the Kubota L4610 with cab. "
What is it I don't understand? How does the 3PH mount work in conjunction with a subframe? You suppose there is a Woods 7500 that isn't 3PH mounted? I don't understand everything I know aout this situation and I sure don't know enough. Gotta ask some more questions.

Patrick

 

[patrickg]

MossRoad,
The kit I'm considering is the CadDigger 808/821. The 808 is 3PH mounted and the 821 is the same basic unit in a standalone version. I'm not sure a stand alone powered by the tractor hydraulics or a PTO driven pump would be very convenient, especially in jobsite manuverability given the hydraulic hose "umbilicus". If I am going to have a standalone it will stand alone.
I need to find somone familiar with backhoes, not backhoe, as in the backhoe they have but someone with a good bit of experience with various backhoes, stand alone, subframe, 3PH, whatever and have them educate me a bit. Backhoes and tractors are way too expensive for me to experiment blindly until I accidently find something that works good enough.

Patrick

 

[patrickg]

Tags,
Like I said in another response, I'm getting confused... Your subframe comment is well taken. If I get a tractor mounted unit it WILL HAVE a subframe. Now then, what is your take on these conflicting items.

Woods telesales guy says the Woods model 7500 with subframe was designed to accomodate the L4610 with cab. I went to the Woods dealer (well they have a woods book and will sell me one) and got them to give me a Xerox copy of the Model 6500-7500 specs page. It lists the 6500 and 7500 as 3 point mounted backhoes. Lists hitch type as category 1. and PTO speed as 540 RPM. This implies to me that it connects to the 3PH and is driven by the PTO. Otherwise why mention them? The only references to other mounts is a reference to another page for skidsteer mounted backhoes.

Patrick the puzzled!

 

[MossRoad]

Sounds like a good plan. If I ever decide to build one I am looking at the <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.cadplans.com/821.htm> model 821</A>. My PT425 has more than enough hydraulic power to operate it. It only requires a 400 pound counter weight maximum and my PT425 is rated to handle 800 pounds on the front, where it would be attached with a quick attach plate. While it will be a little cumbersome to move around, it is a good compromise for me. And, I can always add power to it later on, if I want a truly stand alone machine.

Check out the pics on the CADPLANS website of assembled units. Also, do a search on the internet for caddigger and you will find several posts on construction of these units.

Good luck. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[AndyR]

How many hoes has this dealer worked with? It doesn't sound to me like they are quite on the ball re: sub-frame mounts. The 7500 is quite a bit smaller then my 9000 but I still wouln't consider anything but a sub-frame mount.

I agree that Wood's website (and possibly catalog sheets) are confusing. 'Even more surprised when I just looked at the manual and it only shows the "Saf-T-Lok" 3 point hitch mounting system! Wierd. They do make a few references to the sub-frame - I think it has it's own manual (why they don't list it in with the BH is beyond me). Also noticed the mounted clearance requirements of 10" horizontal from back of ROPS to inside of the seatback and vertical clearance of 40" ABL (above butt level).

 

[Tags]

Patrick,
I am 90% sure that all most all of the three point hitch model hoes are adaptable to accept sub-frame mounting hardware.This is most likely the case w/the woods model,and I'm sure there is a seperate part # for the sub-frame kit for your machine.It sounds like the thing to do is to actually call woods and get a definite answer from somebody there,allthough it really sounds like woods is having trouble answering anybody (through e mail anyway) and if thats the case I would go back to bradco.......I've called them before w/tech questions and they have been extremely helpful,talk to them and see if you could work something out .....it won,t hurt to make the call at least maybe they could give you some measurements over the phone (i.e. how far it will stick off the back w/or wo/the extensions) at least you could get a good idea if it will even come close to working.As far as the pump running off the 540 pto ....no problem goes on and off quite easily and works well also! Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[hayden]

Patrick,

The Woods can be rigged as either a 3PH mount or a frame mount. You can order it either way. To fit on your 4610 HSTC you will need the frame mount, not the 3PH mount. It's exactly the same hoe either way. There are just different brackets that bolt to the hoe for the two different application. I think they have a skid steer mounting kit as well so it can be mounted to the front of a skid steer.

The hydraulic power can also be rigged to use the tractor hydraulics or a self-contained PTO driven hydraulic system. Like with the mounts, there is an optional PTO pump, host, fluid tank kit to outfit the hoe for a self-contained hydraulic system.

Hope this helps,

Peter

 

[patrickg]

Tags, (Wasn't that the name of a childs pet robot dog in Battlestar Galactica?)

Where was I... Oh yeah... I agree with your post pretty much in its entirety but will give the Woods guy a little slack. I think the problem is with the guy at the Woods dealer (a Kubota dealership but not where I got mine) He doesn't know the product real well or so it seems. He probably copied the wrong page for me as it relates to 3PH backhoes.

Below is the email I got today from the Woods guy. They are trying and gave me a 800 number so I'll give them a ring tomorrow. Bradco mailed me 7 or 8 spec sheets. I told them exactly what I had and wanted B U T all but one of the specsheets they sent is for skid steer so dealing with them isn't a first time everytime success either.
This email supports my supposition that the disconnect in getting Woods info is the local dealer's lack of product knowledge.

Patrick;
We offer backhoe subframe mounting kits for tractors that we feel will not
withstand the stresses put on the the tractor when mounting the backhoe on
the 3-point hitch. The subframe mountings are easy on and off and spread the
stresses of the backhoe over the tractor frame instead of concentrating the
stresses on the clutch housing area of the tractor. If the 3-point mounting
is used on tractors which we offer subframe mountings, there is a
possibility of the tractor breaking into two pieces (not a pretty picture).
The hydraulic power can be supplied by the optional 540 RPM hydraulic pump
kit. The backhoe can also be powered by the hydraulic system of the tractor,
however, the volume needed for the backhoe is 6 GPM. If the tractor has
considerably more flow, the backhoe may be quite fast and "jerky" making it
more difficult to operate.
We offer mountings for the BH7500 backhoe so it can be mounted on a tractor
3-point hitch, tractor subframe in cases where we feel the stresses are
excessive for the 3-point, and even mounting brackets for mounting to a skid
steer loader.
Let us know if we can be af additional help.
Steve Wells
Telesales Manager
Woods Equipment Co.
toll free 866-869-6637

 

[patrickg]

Peter,
Good on ya, mate. You get top marks. Compare your post to the Woods reps email I posted. By Jove, I think I got it! Now if I can only get the local Woods dealer to get on the same sheet of music as the rest of the congregation maybe I can get the info required to make an informed decision.

I have attached a WARNING sheet that Bradco sent with their model 3375 spec sheet. Interesting reading.
the next post will have an attachment that is entitled "Recommended Practice" and details how to measure or ROPS or Cab tractor to safely fit and use their backhoe????????????

Patrick

 

[patrickg]

Recommended Practice See attachment