How do I dig a hole in the dirt?

   / How do I dig a hole in the dirt? #1  

ragkar

Platinum Member
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
846
Location
eastern PA-lower Poconos
Tractor
JD2320 w/R4 $21,100 w/7.16%off
I need advice on the procedures and precautions on digging a hole. And don't say 'practice' because I'm doing that and slowly building up a bag of tricks. But I think it would be faster if you would share yours.
For instance: a friend advised me to dump position the loader bucket and drop it into the earth. How far? Do I try to lift the front wheels off the dirt? What if the front area is uneven?
Do I drop the BH feet all the way? What about when the ground is uneven back there?
I noticed that it is difficult to get the far side of the hole vertical. Do I just keep scratching there with the bucket or is it best to move the tractor around to the other side of the hole?
Is it good advice to move the boom/arm/bucket slowly?
Does a good operator have the skill to skew/scoop/lift and bucket-scoop at the same time? Or does he try to limit his control to two things at a time?
Is it normal for the FEL and feet to lose a little extension/pressure over the course of a half hour session (eg an inch on the feet)?
What's the best way to bury small boulders (200-400 pounds)?
Do you try to remove a stump using the BH alone, or do you use the BH and then attack it with the FEL?

Greg
 
   / How do I dig a hole in the dirt? #2  
your asking a lot of questions to do different things. Different jobs require different techniques. I will tackle 1 for you

Digging with a front end loader 1 will require a tooth bar. put the teeth into the ground but not a a full dump & then curl the bucket. I do this as I go Bite & curl Bite & curl. After I break up a load of soil I remove it and start again. If you need a deeper hole than the loader will dig then you have to dig a ramp into the hole to the depth you want. When your done back fill the ramp
 
   / How do I dig a hole in the dirt? #3  
I'm assuming your basic question is concerning digging with a BH?? With that said,,,,, practice, practice, practice.

Yes, a good operator will operate the wrist, elbow, shoulder and swing all at the same time!!!

Depending on dirt conditions, position the bucket with the teeth at an angle of 45 degrees toward you, applying enough downward pressure with the shoulder to slightly raise the tractor. Drag the bucket by folding the elbow, raising the shoulder and extending the wrist all at the same time. This technique will create a flat bottomed trench which will get deeper with each time you repeat.

The wrist has the most power so it is used in conditions where the dirt is too hard to drag the bucket thru until full. Under those conditions you need to apply downward pressure on the bucket while folding the wrist which will cause the bucket to roll full as it moves.

There are so many soil variables and digging goals that you will have to hone your skills using different techniques. For example digging out a stump is usually done with wrist action to get the teeth under the stump enough to bite into it and fold the wrist to pry the stump upward. In this case you aren't trying to load the bucket with dirt, you are just trying to roll the stump out of the ground. Same applies when digging up rocks.

Once you have improved your skills you will also be able to get both sides/ends of your hole vertical without having to move the machine to the other side.

A BH in the hands of a good operator is indeed a fine symphony to watch. With that said,,,, some people just cannot run a BH, regardless of how much practice they get. Some people just never understand the mechanics of what is going on and are constantly fighting with the machine. :confused:
 
   / How do I dig a hole in the dirt? #4  
Ragkar,

Ok, you are practicing. That's good.

One thing is that you typically don't just dig a hole straight down. More of a trenching action, taking 2-3" of soil in a long shallow scoop. Keep doing that until you are at the depth you want.

To keep the bottom flat and the back wall vertical you need to use the controls for the boom, dipper stick (crowd) and bucket curl all at once. You lower the boom while crowding the dipperstick in with the bucket cutting edge vertical down. When you get down a ways, you then curl the bucket and crowd the dipperstick in to you when it is getting full you raise the boom while continueing to curl the bucket. While raising the boom, swing and extend the dipperstick over to the spoils pile where you dump the bucket. If you put the back of the full bucket against the spoils pile, you can then extend the dipperstick while lowering the boom and un-curling the bucket. That will move the pile back away from the tractor while dumping the bucket. It is a way of putting more spoils in the pile than straight dumping alone will allow.

While ovrszd is correct that some won't get it, don't give up! Also, don't expect to get fair until AFTER you have 75-100 hours running it. If you are doing something and wonder which control or what way to turn it - you need more practice. In Zen terms, "you must become one with the backhoe". When you can take the coin from my hand with the bucket, you will be ready to face the world on your own, Grasshopper.
 
   / How do I dig a hole in the dirt?
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Thanks for the response guys. I went out and tried your advice and it's becoming easier.
Ovrszd - you had me confused for a bit with your terminology of wrist, elbow, shoulder but I figured it out. I think that your terms are more descriptive than the ones on the acetate labels on my bh ie. bucket, arm, boom. I'm going to relabel it.
john bud - I'm glad to hear that it might take 75-100 hours as it's a good excuse for my lack of proficiency at five hours. I can use the right levers, but sometimes I still move them in the wrong direction. And often I move them too fast. I figure if I keep digging a half hour a day for a few weeks then thing might become easier.

One trick that I discovered is that instead of positioning the bucket and then pulling the lever and praying, is to have a definite objective for each scoop. 'I'm going to dig up that rock' or 'this time I'm going to cut down that bulge'. Also when I fail (ie. I end up with a half empty bucket) admit defeat and try again at the rock/bulge etc.

How about the rest of you guys. Do you have any suggestions?
 
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   / How do I dig a hole in the dirt? #6  
You can lower your engine speed to lessen the power/speed of the hoe. This might help take some of the initial jerkiness out of your movements but you do get less digging power.

Technique definitely varies with soil conditions. We have a hard clay layer down about 3 feet and as soon as you hit that it requires you to do more loosing of the soil by raking with the bucket teeth before you can get a good scoop.

Digging holes is one thing, filling them back in and making them smooth is another! ;)
 
   / How do I dig a hole in the dirt? #7  
Hi Ragkar,
Digging is not so hard, you dont want to hear this but it does take practice, a lot of practice. You also need to know the limitations of your equipment. As for using the back hoe it should be the same as you moving your arm, meaning that you shouldnt haft to think about the movement just naturaly do it. When digging stumps sometimes your going to haft to dig a trench around the stump just to break it loose. Some of the hickory stumps that ive been digging up I need to dig an 8' trench completely around it before it even starts to budge. Keep in mind that im using a full size back hoe (JD310) just keep digging around it cutting roots as you go till you can see it move with the hoe then reach the bucket around behind it and curl it up. digging a square hole is all technique first get the bulk out first then using the bucket shave the walls down till straight. use the same method on the bottom. When starting a hole have the bucket about 45 degrees from the ground while pushing down pull it to you and curl the bucket as it fills. If the hoe is dragging the tractor around try it with less bite. I hope this helps.
 
   / How do I dig a hole in the dirt? #8  
Hi, Greg!

When using a smaller (i.e., not "full-size") backhoe to pull stumps, you will trench around it, but you may want to leave one or two of the larger roots sticking out pretty far. You can then pull on them with the hoe to try to twist the stump. If the stump is pretty tall, you can also try to pull the stump over by hooking the bucket over the top of the stump and pulling. You may be able to push the stump harder with your loader bucket, especially if you bite into the stump with the loader and try to lift it a little while driving forward in lowest gear. The lifting causes the front wheels to have greater traction. Watch your clutch and don't ram hard into the stump (that puts tremendous pressure shock on the hydraulics).

As for this question:
"Is it normal for the FEL and feet to lose a little extension/pressure over the course of a half hour session (eg an inch on the feet)?"
the answer is yes, especially if the hydraulics are hot. But it is more likely that the jarring and shaking of the hoe caused the loader and stabilizers to just mush into the ground making it seem like they have lost extension/pressure.

And for this question:
"What's the best way to bury small boulders (200-400 pounds)?"
ummmm...dig a hole, insert boulder, cover it up. Sometimes I dig out a stump, move it to the side, dig the hole deeper, put the stump in it and then cover it up and smooth out the ground the best I can. I leave the ground humped up a bit because I expect it to settle some when the stump eventually rots.

Oh, yeah. You also need to practice. You can do some practicing while you're working. When digging a ditch or removing a stump it's pretty hard to make a big mistake, so do those jobs before you try to trench along the side of your house between the block walls and your wife's heirloom rose bushes!
 
   / How do I dig a hole in the dirt? #9  
Check out this site, Case sponsored backhoe rodeo. Maybe one will happen near you, you can watch some of these guys, and learn some tips. They have video on the site you can watch. Try practicing some of the maneuvers that they are doing. Good luck.

Case Rodeo Series :: Home
 
   / How do I dig a hole in the dirt? #10  
Ragkar,

I would NOT re-lable the hoe parts. Part of your training is to use and understand the machine. That means that you have to learn the nomenclature of the BH and of excavation. Painful? Yes, but think about how you will get advice if you are using unique language that hardly anyone else understands?

Howstuffworks "How Caterpillar Backhoe Loaders Work"

You need to learn the operation of the machine and the language to really understand it. Don't be that guy in front of me at the parts counter asking for "the metal thingy that goes between the shoulder and arm on my backhoe"! We all laugh when he leaves....
 
 
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