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  1. #1
    Silver Member North Dakota's Avatar
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    Mandan ND
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    '84 Ford 1710

    Default When roto-tilling how much engine RPM drop?

    I have a ford 1710 with a 60 inch KK II tiller attachment the tractor has a 3 cyl diesel with a 24 hp PTO. Tiller manual says not to lug the tractor when tilling. KK web site says 25 to 40 HP recommended PTO HP.

    OK onto my question. I set the RPM to 2400 which is the 540 PTO speed. Put the tiller in the ground and start tilling. The RPM will drop some 100 - 200 rpms and to get it back to 540 PTO speed I give the tractor a little more throttle. To me this would seem normal for a tractor doing work.

    When is to much RPM drop a problem? What is considered lugging? To me a lugged engine would blow black smoke from the exhaust and have quit a bit of RPM loss.
    Last edited by North Dakota; 04-29-2008 at 03:43 PM.
    '84 ford 1710, 5 ft Farm King Cultivator, 5 ft KK Tiller,770B Loader. "God, I hate the Green Bay Packers"

  2. #2
    Veteran Member NewToy's Avatar
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    Location
    Ohio
    Tractor
    '05 Farmtrac 270DTC

    Default Re: When roto-tilling how much engine RPM drop?

    Sounds like you're doing fine. Depending on soil conditions you'll experience some RPM drop when you fully engage the tiller in the soil. You can feel the lugging factor, it's like trying to take too steep a hill in hi gear in your truck. It doesn't sound like you are having a problem, keep on grinding up that dirt.

    John
    Farmtrac 270 DTC

  3. #3
    Veteran Member jbrumberg's Avatar
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    Western MA
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    New Holland TC29DA, John Deere 455D

    Default Re: When roto-tilling how much engine RPM drop?

    North Dakota:

    "To me a lugged engine would blow black smoke from the exhaust and have quit a bit of RPM loss." I think you answered your own question. My "29" is comparable to your 1710 as is my tiller to yours. If I sense the tractor starting to strain (usually on the first pass on new sod) I increase throttle and/or raise the tiller slightly. I believe that the "specs" on the KKII tiller are very conservative as to PTO HP recommendations. Jay
    NH TC29DA with 14LA and HD QA 60" bucket, weighted R-1's, FOPS, CCM M-160 (58") Tiller, Tebben MD 60" Rotary Cutter, Woods LR 108 (96") Landscape Rake, FEL cutting edge and tooth bar, Woods GB60 (60") Box Blade, Wallenstein BXM32

    1995 John Deere 455 Diesel with 48" mower, MC 519 Cart with PowerVac

  4. #4
    Veteran Member
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    N. E. Ohio
    Tractor
    tc- 29d

    Default Re: When roto-tilling how much engine RPM drop?

    I beleive some get "working" an engine and "lugging" an engine. A working engine will show black smoke , but holds RPM's near where you start. A lugging engine will drop many RPM's. Am I wrong in this accessment?
    dqdave1; tc-29D; woods 7500 bh; 7308 fel, land pride tiller, land pride rake, gill pulverizer, 60"mmm. , bucket forks , MZ16H

  5. #5
    Elite Member JC-jetro's Avatar
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    Kansas
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    Ford 1700, Kubota MX-4700

    Default Re: When roto-tilling how much engine RPM drop?

    A 'lugging" engine will not respond to increase of the throttle as if it can not cope with excess demand put on it. Reducing the throttle bring a lugging engine closer to normal condition, the same can also be archived by gearing down a lugged engine. As far as tilling RPM, I personally do not look at engine rpm, based on the soil type I set the throttle as low as I can to achieve the consistency I need. For my type of soil, I run my ford 1700 @ about 1300to 1600 RPM at whatever pto RPM it happens to be, that's enough to till my soil to powder consistency and the engine is just purring along. Saying that, the tractor is designed to operate the implement @ 540 rpm. For 1700 that means 2550 engine Rpm. Engine should be able to do that for hours on end if in good mechanical shape without any damage.

    JC,
    Ford 1700, 2wd.
    Kubota MX-4700DT, Gear transmission with LA 884 loader, Q/A and HD bucket.
    60" Woods Rotary Cutter, home made (3-pt boom and a Row Hipper) ,King Kutter( 5 ft Tiller,Middle Buster,Single Row Cultivator,Carry-all, 5 ft blade, 6 ft Landscaping Rake ,30" Dirt Scoop and a 4'x4' Drag Harrow)

  6. #6
    Silver Member North Dakota's Avatar
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    Mandan ND
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    '84 Ford 1710

    Default Re: When roto-tilling how much engine RPM drop?

    Thanks for the advice guys. I think everything is just fine then.

    I Had to laugh at myself the other day. When I bought my tractor I put in the lowest gear it just crept along slower then a walk. I thought when would I ever use this gear? I found out it works real good for tilling unbroken ground.
    '84 ford 1710, 5 ft Farm King Cultivator, 5 ft KK Tiller,770B Loader. "God, I hate the Green Bay Packers"

  7. #7
    Member
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    Apr 2008
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    Location
    Sebastopol, CA
    Tractor
    New Holland 29DA

    Default Re: When roto-tilling how much engine RPM drop?

    The comment about running lower than 540 PTO rpm's makes me think of a related question - How often do you guys run attachments at 540 PTO rpm? Mowers, tillers, chippers, whatever. Seems to me the tractor is working pretty hard at high rpms, and using a lot of fuel. In many cases, I can run lower speed and the tractor seems to be a lot happier and still has power to do the job. Tractors don't last forever, so I try not to stress my engine for no reason. Running at 540 PTO rpm seems like its hard on the engine, and might shorten the life of the tractor if you do it for hours on end.

    However, I understand how the governer on a diesel works - it adds fuel to keep the rpm at whatever you set it for (not really the same as a throttle on a gas engine). So in theory, the diesel with a fixed load uses almost the same amount of fuel at any rpm. But in practice, it sure sounds like its working hard at high rpms.

    Can anyone shed light on this?

  8. #8
    Silver Member North Dakota's Avatar
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    Mandan ND
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    '84 Ford 1710

    Default Re: When roto-tilling how much engine RPM drop?

    Quote Originally Posted by kbuegel
    The comment about running lower than 540 PTO rpm's makes me think of a related question - How often do you guys run attachments at 540 PTO rpm? Mowers, tillers, chippers, whatever. Seems to me the tractor is working pretty hard at high rpms, and using a lot of fuel. In many cases, I can run lower speed and the tractor seems to be a lot happier and still has power to do the job. Tractors don't last forever, so I try not to stress my engine for no reason. Running at 540 PTO rpm seems like its hard on the engine, and might shorten the life of the tractor if you do it for hours on end.

    However, I understand how the governer on a diesel works - it adds fuel to keep the rpm at whatever you set it for (not really the same as a throttle on a gas engine). So in theory, the diesel with a fixed load uses almost the same amount of fuel at any rpm. But in practice, it sure sounds like its working hard at high rpms.

    Can anyone shed light on this?
    My KK tiller manual says that the tiller was design to operate properly at 540 RPM only and warns of going above that. The only thing I could think that might happen with running at lower speeds then 540 RPM would be oil distrubition in the gear boxes on top and on the side of the machine might not splash around enough to get all the gears slopped with gear lube. It seems unlikely that that would be the case but at load under low rpms maybe damage could happen as the top gear in the side gear case of my tiller is quite a distance above the static oil level.
    '84 ford 1710, 5 ft Farm King Cultivator, 5 ft KK Tiller,770B Loader. "God, I hate the Green Bay Packers"

  9. #9
    Veteran Member pitt_md's Avatar
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    Pine Island, MN
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    Kubota MX5000

    Default Re: When roto-tilling how much engine RPM drop?

    My Befco 66" tiller does not load down my tractor at all when all the down. I generally run in 2nd gear low range at about 2300 - 2400 rpms. The rpm's required to get 540 PTO speed is 2700. The fuel consumption between 2700 and 2400 is a lot and just seems to be less stress on the machine.

  10. #10
    Veteran Member ccsial's Avatar
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    NorthWest Illinois
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    (Kuboto L3400) (Ford 1910 4WD w/FEL) (Deere X748SE) All bought new

    Default Re: When roto-tilling how much engine RPM drop?

    I have a 1910 and use a 60" Howard rototiller. It will drop a few hundred RPM as well when the tiller is digging deep. I wouldn't worry.
    Kubota L3400-HST, Ford 1910-Gear FEL, John Deere X748SE

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