knotting problems with JD 14T baler

[dan_d]

haha i guess you're right, something a little more drastic might do the trick! what's the worst that could happen, it won't tie anymore?? I mean, really, we got the baler for free when we moved in so it's not that big of a loss!

by view of the rear, you mean like this?
http://www.dearaujo.net/pics/14T/IMG_6654.JPG
http://www.dearaujo.net/pics/14T/IMG_6664.JPG

I suppose a video would be ideal if I can get the right perspective...

Moving the position of the knotter is a great idea, thanks! never occurred to me that it's just as movable as anything else; guess i just needed a different perspective on things! I suppose this old equipment sometimes needs a new way of thinking...
i was getting ready to give up on it for a while there since the neighbour offered to sell me his old baler that's "been stored inside its whole life and just needs a bit of WD40 at the beginning of every season"... doesn't help that hay season is literally around the corner! That'll teach me to get my *** in gear earlier next time (i hope!)...

Cheers,
Dan

 

[Rara Avis]

John Deere - John Deere Publishing

This manual has a complete debugger for your knotter...

Hay and Forage Harvesting
"Real world" evaluations of the many different ways to improve hay and forage harvesting and storage efficiency.
Book ｩ 2004 FMO14105NC US$ 40.95
Instructor Guide FMO14505T US$ 52.95
Student Guide FMO14605W US$ 17.95

 

[zzvyb6]

I'd call those pictures front view. The rear view would show the relative heights of the parts, and the rotations. I'm presuming that the intermitent gear is riding tightly against the billhook drive gear. If not, there are usually a lot of unused shims stashed on the shaft so you can shim it out.

With the price of hay as high as it is, its worth your efforts to make your own and sell the excess to your neighbors. This is a chance to have your cake and eat it too. As a business, you will need a welder, air compressor, wrenches, torches, new delivery truck and trailer, boat, dog and a bikini clad hay helper. Works for me....

 

[dan_d]

hehe. i've been poking at those knotters for so long I just started thinking that was the "front"
Here we are... Or is that too low?
http://www.dearaujo.net/pics/14T/IMG_6664.JPG

Yes, the drive gear is riding flush with the intermitent gear.

And as much as I'd love to be in a situation to sell hay, we barely get enough to feed our own horses as it is, and we're getting big (like 60x204 indoor riding facility big) into the horse boarding and lessons so we are definitely going to be on the receiveing end of your hay business! You're a little far from me, but if you're delivering with the bikini-clad hay helper tho, I might consider it

Tonight is 'fix the wagon' night, and tomorrow is 'fix the baler' day, so i'll let you know on monday how things went... but I fully intend to drill a new hole into that knotter shaft if that's what it takes to get 'er goin!

Thanks again for all the tips,
DD

 

[born2ride]

I'm presuming that the intermitent gear is riding tightly against the billhook drive gear. If not, there are usually a lot of unused shims stashed on the shaft so you can shim it out. .

this has been a good thead i have been following it closely and learning. but zzvyb6 you mentioned shims which bring me too...
Have a parts baler was thinking of taking off the knotters. cleaning them up and paint but i have not found a good source of information on set up and shimming.

i did look through the pdf you emailed me.did i miss it?
dand

there is a few parts on ebay of the 14t. if you have not checked.
this is the most i have seen in awhile
ps sorry to highjack thread on you...

 

[dan_d]

heh np.
thing with buying parts on ebay is I want to know for sure that that part is what's broken before i replace it... so i'm more than happy to make non-lethal modifications if necessary for the time being. and it's cheaper too!

as for the shims, i think the JDparts book just says to use as many as need to get a tight fit.... hopefully that's correct, cause that's what i did anyways!

 

[zzvyb6]

Funny how life goes. My neighbor just blew up his JD baler somehow. The plunger stop was all caked up with fungus and failed to engage. Broke both needles and a knotter frame. Not sure he will want to fix it, but may be out looking for parts as I write this.

I've gotten stuff from eBay for replacement parts. Just look at the feedback. Buying local is handy because you will see what's involved, get it immediately and can get to know what other stuff they have parts-wise.

Have still not seen a view from the rear of the knotter frame. I want to see the home position of the intermitent gears, the positions of the cotter pins (to see if they line up), the angles of the billhooks and the look of the billhooks when the billhook finger opens.

What I was thinking is that perhaps what happened is that the billhook drive gear is off by 1 tooth. This means pushing out the roll pin, advancing or retarding the gear, and reassembling. That would explain why the billhook rotations are not the same at knot release....

 

[dan_d]

hahaha, i'm sorry, I didn't notice I copied/pasted the link wrong...
Try this one:
http://www.dearaujo.net/pics/14T/IMG_6663.JPG
and here's the home position of the intermittent gears:
http://www.dearaujo.net/pics/14T/IMG_6652.JPG
Which to me seems like the inboard one is 1 tooth ahead.

I had a close look on the weekend and it looks like the previous owner was somewhat aware of the problem since the inboard needle is also a bit advanced. But this has now turned into a fall/winter project, since I was *finally* able to get it working on saturday! As per your suggestion, I put a spacer between the knotter and the little bracket that it bolts onto to delay the engagement of the knotter a little. It is still advanced now even tho I put a decent-sized nut in as a spacer, but it is close enough that the twine gets into position just as the billhook starts to turn! Can't move it any further since the needle is cutting it pretty close to the twine disks at this point... Made 15 bales without missing one so i'm hoping that is a good sign

I think the long term solution is to re-align the gear by putting a set-screw or something similar to turn the intermittent gear back far enough to get everything syncronized again.

One other thing I did notice tho, is that the inboard side of the hay flake comes back further into the plnuger chute than the outboard side.... Would that just be an uneven bale tension thing, or do the hay-dogs have anything to do with that? I can't find anything in the user's guide about maintaining the hay dogs.... Can I only access them from the hay (exit) chute when there is no hay in there? or can i remove a panel to get at them?

Thanks again for all the help!
Dan

 

[zzvyb6]

The needles are mounted onto the needle pickup frame by two bolts on a rocker mount. The needle tips can therefore be moved fore/aft by setting the bolts + and - to get them to just brush by the twine disks. Note that they should also be adjusted laterally to be in firm contact with the knotter frame. This keeps them from bouncing into the way of other parts in their travel stroke.

Now that you have something working, check all the springs in the system. This means the tucker finger drive, the plunger stops (underneath the bale case) and the knotter drive stop detent. Worn springs in the plunger stop did some expensive damage to my neighbors machine last week. Since they were feeble, the hay chaff got caught in the mechanism. When he got a wet hay plug, the needles got caught and the stops were not in place. Oops...

The only thing remaining to do is check the porcelain twine guides (they usually have groves cut into them that catches and stalls the twine, the plunger wedges (keeps the plunger running square to prevent the cutoff knives from locking into each other, and the needle lift link shear pin. If its worn or bent, the problems that result will be expensive.

Good job ! Now figure out how much your time is worth and get involved in other restorations....

 

[dan_d]

700 bales and counting! Ok, they're a little bit shorter than normal bales since my wife likes having them a bit lighter, but its still a good start to this baler's second life! I'm hoping to get another 700 by the end of this week, assuming the weather co-operates of course...

Actually, i'm not sure exactly how many since the bale counter doesn't work quite right... you know something's wrong when your counter says 222 bales *after* it said 284 last time you checked!

Ran into a little (ok alot) trouble on friday with the wiper arm not wiping the knot off properly, but got that sorted out just before the end of the first roll of twine, which caused another set of headaches because the new roll was slightly thicker and the twine was slipping off the billhook during rotation! After a bunch of playing around, we ended up reducing the spacing I had originally put in the knotter frrame bracket to compensate for the offset intermittent gear just a little bit since that spacer changed the angle at which the twine 'hit' the billhook. Since then it missed only 1 out of 200 bales, and it was actually the 'good' knotter that just randomly missed one.

One thing i'm having a little trouble with is getting the twine to be evenly tight on both sides... for some reason the one side is almost always a bit looser. Is the bale tension primarily controlled by the base case springs or the twine tension, or a mix of both? I noticed that there's some bolts that ride on an arced bracket that seem to control some bale case movement as well... do those have to be loose when I tighten/loosen the springs? (i haven't been losening them so far...) Right now i've just been of the opinion of "the d*mn thing works, don't mess with it!" but i'd like to tidy a few things up now that it's gotten a little more reliable.


DD

P.S: Do I need to use the synthetic SAE140 gearoil they sell at the Deere dealership, or do other places sell other (less expensive) stuff that will do the trick?