Weight is bad

   / Weight is bad #1  

MessickFarmEqu

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Lancaster County, PA
I just got out of a 4 hour class on weight and ballast. Thought I'd throw it up here for you all to chew on. It was run by New Holland, who is a middle of the road company when it comes to their own products weight.

The basic principle of this class was to dispel the old farmer myth that more weight is better. Todays modern tractors are built in a way that weight no longer is equal to durability. More often its the opposite. The basic consensus is that beyond a reasonable amount, weight is bad as it does nothing but burn fuel, wear tires, increase compaction, easier to get stuck, and make the tractor more sluggish.

Todays machines should be ballasted, not just heavy. For most of the work you see compacts doing a 35/65 F/R split is about right. Put too much on the rear and your front tires are not doing any work, have too much in the front and you start to fight the lead of the FWD. Neither are good. The work your doing changes this. Obviously loader work moves a lot of weight front, 3pt work pulls to the rear as the front end lifts.

The trend is towards doing work with as little weight as possible. They had a really interesting series of videos of tractors pulling cultivators and the difference that ballasting would make over even a short span. The most efficient machine out of the group happened to be the lightest machine without the duel tires and front weights we're used to seeing. Taking the same tractor and putting 2000lbs in the wrong place could skew things nearly 20%.

One thing I learned is that the liquid ballast that we often use in compacts is a huge detriment to traction. Changing a machine to iron weights improves ride and traction to the point that it can make a 10% difference in productivity. Field tractors are typically setup for 100-130lbs per PTO HP. Ideally you would want to be as light as your application will allow while being properly ballasted.

The first objection here is that you need weight for traction, however thats easy to overcome by lowering tire pressure providing that your machine is not setup go gosh darn heavy that the side walls can't take it. Modern tire designs and drive systems have made raw mass unneeded for most applications. They're putting 300Hp field tractors out at 5-6 psi. We spend good money for radial tires so they'll do this, but we don't put them to work. A bias ply is much cheaper if your not interested in running low PSI.

About the only application where you really want weight is when your working on hills (providing its all down low) and when you need to stop something like a bale wagon, manure tanker, etc.

thoughts?
 
   / Weight is bad #2  
I just got out of a 4 hour class on weight and ballast. Thought I'd throw it up here for you all to chew on...

Very interesting post with great information. Thanks for sharing. Do you have any of the videos or presentation slides to post? What was the name of this class (I'd like to ask my NH dealer about it)?

The basic principle of this class was to dispel the old farmer myth that more weight is better...

In the examples you sited for front / rear ratios and rotor tiller pulling setups was that using 2wd or 4wd? Did they mention how 2wd vs 4wd mode affects weight setups?

One thing I learned is that the liquid ballast that we often use in compacts is a huge detriment to traction. Changing a machine to iron weights improves ride and traction to the point that it can make a 10% difference in productivity. Field tractors are typically setup for 100-130lbs per PTO HP. Ideally you would want to be as light as your application will allow while being properly ballasted.

Yikes, you probably just made a lot of people mad, or at least uncomfortable with that statement. Filling tires seems to be a big "gotta have" for a lot of people. Once you put weight in your tires you are stuck with the extra weight. If you choose iron weights and / or a ballast box you have a lot of flexibility in your weighting and you can get rid of the extra weight when you don't want it.
 
   / Weight is bad #3  
I would think it all boils down to ground pressure and a given draw bar load.

maintain 4-5 psi, and keep adding tire/ground contact until you run out of HP.

(assuming you not pulling 60hp of load on a 300hp machine)
 
   / Weight is bad #4  
For field machines that is a pretty good bet, but what about our dinky little machines? What are the weight ratios we have? Also, why are they comparing PTO hp when drawbar hp would be the better gage to weight?

Then I have to ask myself, what is the expected differential gain for a steel wheel weight (that is less overall poundage) than the fill in real world benefit compared to the cost difference ?

Answer -> dunno.

jb
 
   / Weight is bad #5  
For what I saw when Case introduced this stuff about ten plus years ago you could be about 10% lighter without the fluid to give the same results when pulling a load.

Buy cast, you buy it once!

There are tractors built that are effectively to heavy to properly balance without over weighting.
 
   / Weight is bad #6  
Neil, that seminar sounds like it is directed more towards ag tractors than the compacts most of us have. The ballast in my rear tires is to keep the wheels on the ground instead of off the ground where they provide no traction or braking whatsoever. I resisted filling my tires until I got a rock bucket when I had to get my tires filled. I cannot remember one "pucker moment" since filling my rear tires, but I sure had many before filling them; although, most of those were moving downhill with a FEL load. I rarely had problems on level ground.

For draft work, all you say seems to make sense, but for the kind of work most of us do with our compacts, loading the rear tires adds stability. At least that's my "real world" experience. Although it doesn't apply to me, I'd like to see how ballast and weight applies when plowing snow. Would lighter work just as well as heavier?
 
   / Weight is bad #7  
I normally wouldn't try to contradict anyone who's business is what the discussion is about; and I don't disagree with the premise at all...EXCEPT...when you have an 1500-1800 FEL on the front of a 6300lb base tractor (50+ PTO HP), you best better have about 1200-1400 lbs of "ballast" in your rear tires...When I bought my Mahindra 6000 I had the rears ballasted before it was delivered...really glad I did....By the way, with an FEL, there aint no way you can get all your HP to the ground without that 1300lbs in the ***** end...less compaction doesn't mean much if you can't pull the equipment...just my $.02. BobG in VA
 
   / Weight is bad #8  
I would think it all boils down to ground pressure and a given draw bar load.

maintain 4-5 psi, and keep adding tire/ground contact until you run out of HP.

(assuming you not pulling 60hp of load on a 300hp machine)
 
   / Weight is bad #9  
I can see how too much ballast reduces the effectiveness of FWD. I experience this on my little tractor with loaded tires and the backhoe hanging out back. Front end gets real light. But I'm not going to run out there and drain the fluid out either. Stability is just too important.:D

I don't see their position as applying across the board for all sizes and configurations. From what I have seen a light compact benefits greatly from added weight as long as it's properly distributed.
 
   / Weight is bad #10  
Thanks for that post, Neil. Very informative. I think we each should weigh it in light of our own experience and needs, however.

I know, filled rears are a "gotta-have" on my tractors, yet the old Ford 4000 still isn't filled. Of the tractors I work with (the JD is down), the 4000 is the only one that makes me nervous on hills....sometimes very nervous on not much of a hill. Would iron be better?? Dunno....but it certainly wouldn't be as low down as the fluid.

Most of the larger machines I've operated for the neighbor have been heavily front ballasted and equipped with duals. They needed all the help they could get. On a steep sidehill, they often still had trouble holding a merger or a MoCo on its windrow. When it got really steep having two big ones on the downhill side was comforting as well. I have noticed, however, that fuel consumption seems quite high on all of those tractors.

Also old-school tractors with lots of HP and grabby clutches need the front ballast to keep the nose down. Was operating an old JD6300 recently that would lift the fronts off the ground with the least provocation. Scared me bad a few times. More predictable clutches eliminate the need.
Bob
 

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