low hydraulic fluid in ford 860

[botemout]

Howdy

Hope you don't mind my opening up this post which I'd originally opened in the Hydraulic forum. I'd gotten a couple of good responses but then I had some other fires to put out and am just now getting back to dealing with this problem. Below is the URL of the original post.

The problem is that after using my tractor for some period of time my hydraulics stop working. When first starting, though it's slow, I'm able to raise the bucket as high as I want. After, say, 10 minutes of using it though the bucket won't come up. I've checked the fluid via the dipstick next to the PTO clutch (I think that's what you could call it) and it's empty.

So, I need to add hydraulic fluid (at some point fix the leak, but for now I just need to be able to use the FEL for extended periods).

The questions are two:
1) what kind of fluid and
2) which of the, at least 4 holes, do I put the fluid in.

In the prior post people asked about whether I had a front pump. I don't think I do. I think, as you can see in the pictures, the FEL is fed from the main pump right near the front seat; the same pump which powers the PTO.

I'm hoping that question number one is pretty straightforward and that fluid I got from TSC in this pic - Picasa Web Albums - rancher-in-training - 1957-ford-860... - is the correct kind.

Question number 2 is harder.

Here are pictures of 4 different locations where fluid can be put:
- next to the stick shift (#1)
Picasa Web Albums - rancher-in-training - 1957-ford-860...
- where the hydraulic lines comes out of the engine (#2) and the larger plug closer to the engine (#3)
Picasa Web Albums - rancher-in-training - 1957-ford-860...
- right under the seat, basically leading into the differential (#4)
Picasa Web Albums - rancher-in-training - 1957-ford-860...

I was told by a farmer who asked another farmer where it should go and he said, "Under the seat." Problem is there are really at least 2 plugs under the seat (#3 and #4).

Thanks for any help. I have to get this straightened out. It's been snowing a bunch and I'm going to have use the FEL and bucket to move snow out of the way of where I need to feed hay.

JR
Original post:
Low hydraulic fluid in Ford 860 with FEL - TractorByNet.com

 

[rambler]

You need a _trans hydraulic oil_ compatable with Ford 134? oil. The question mark is a letter, any new oil that mentions Ford or New Holland 134 with any letter after it will be fine. Read the fine print & see if you are covered. I think 134D is current, but if it's a bigger letter so much the better....

If not, at _least_ be sure you have trans hydraulic oil, not just hydraulic oil. The trans part has better stuff in for the tranny gears.

When new your Ford had 3 locations for oil, but at this age, it all seeps from one compartment to another, so - they all use the same oil.

Some folks don't like the thin 134 trans hyd oil, and use an 80/90 weight trans hyd oil instead. This will not work well in cold weather, but it will work better when your tractor is warm and the pump is worn.

Which brings us to the problem - I'm sure your pump is worn, and as the oil gets hot & thin, it doesn't reach the pressure you need. Do you have the older vane pump, or the newer rotory pump? The vane pump is too expensive to rebuild, rotory is better. Anyhow, a thicker oil might let the loader work longer? But there are tradeoffs....

It looks like you got the right stuf from the big print on the pail, but you might want to look at the fine print for Ford/ NH 134 compatable.

#1 by the shifter is the tranny. #3 is the hydraulics. #4 is the rear end. Might as well top off all 3 to their proper levels. They tend to leak into each other at this age anyhow....

A manual is a wonderful thing, and pretty easy & inexpensive to find - all the 100 series tractors were covered by the same manual, so you can find them easy. Very helpful.

I see in the 8th picture the oil is milky. It's not good to have water in the oil, very very common after all these years. You'd do well to make all hyd cylinders as short as possible, drain the oil (when warmed up, so the ice is melted in there). You'll likely need to do that a couple times to flush it all. A little spendy, but sure would be good for your system. The water is part of your problem.

The Ford doesn't have a huge resivor, and a slow pump to start with, so I will guess keeping on top of this siuation is important.

--->Paul

 

[botemout]

Hi rambler,

Thanks for the advice. It's great to have a plan going forward.

I don't know whether I have a rotary or a vane pump. How do I find out? I've looked at sites like tractordata.com and not seen it mentioned.

I looked at the fine print on the bucket of trans/hydro fluid I bought and it is for Ford 134 D,C,B,A (here's a picture of the label: Picasa Web Albums - upstate-angus - 1957-ford-860...)

I'll get out there today and top up the levels. It helps tremendously to know that I can put the same fluid in all the resevoirs. I do have a shop manual, in the fact the original that came with it. When I first looked through it I got lost in the details. The chapter on hydraulics had complete instructions for how to rebuild the system but I didn't see anything that told where to put fluid ;-) Perhaps that was in another chapter.

Thanks again,
JR

 

[Soundguy]

First.. the hyd fill is #3, and the oil you have is fine.

That is a VALVE on the hyd cover.. that's not the ENGINE... and the pump doesn't power the pto.. the pto is purely mechanical and gear driven from the tranny though does have a 2 stage clutch on an 860.. so it is a live pto.

while the sumps seals may leak.. they may not leak.. though the utf oil is fine for all 3 sumps.

You will actually need to take a pic of the right side of the engine where the hydraulic pump is mounted if you want us to tell you if you have a vane pump ( squareish ) or a piston pump, ( cylindrical ).. it's up there at the rear of the engine.

if you lose lift because you run out of oil.. that's one issue.. if you loose lift becuas ethe vane pump is worn out.. that's another issue.

Now.. something to check.. check the trans compartment.. if you have lots of oil in the trans compartment, you could have a leak in the feedthru tubes coming from the pump to the hyd center section, thru the trans.

check to see if the trans is 'making' oil

post back.

soundguy