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  1. #21
    Platinum Member techwrtr2's Avatar
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    Nov 2007
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    765
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    Alabama PA
    Tractor
    Which one?

    Default Re: Chain top link

    On the subject of chain top links and their safety, I think it important to remember that when operating a machine like a CUT et, the ultimate burden of safety is on the operator. Even the most well designed equipment will "turn on you" if you aren't aware and are careless when operating it. Similiarly, equipment that will scare away some operators will be operated for many years without incident by operators who are aware of the risks and keep their weather eye on the equipment at all times.

    Even without a chain toplink, I always keep close attention paid to whatever implement I have hanging back there. Either because I'm tring to avoid having the front of the mower dig in (ground here is really bad and it's nearly impossible to avoid totaly) or I want my grading work to go well.

    It is up to the operator to determine whether his setup is appropriate for the task he's about to perform. That chain toplink may work well when doing some light road grading but it may also be more likely to cause issues when breaking up hard packed earth. The operator has to make that decision and the operator is responsible for the success or failure of his choice.

    My .02.
    I like to play in the dirt....
    Satoh Beaver w/Blackhawk loader & hoe.
    JD855 w/stuff.

  2. #22
    Super Member texasjohn's Avatar
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    Oct 2005
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    5,494
    Location
    Central Texas, Jarrell
    Tractor
    Kubota 5030HSTC

    Default Re: Chain top link

    Just to be clear, I use a hydraulic (fixed) top link for all implements except the box blade. I also use it with the box blade when grading hard packed road and with chisel points engaged.

    Flexible "hydralink" is used to spread out newly applied and loose road base dropped by my dump trailer.
    Joy is having the tools you need and needing the tools you have!

    Kubota 5030 HSTC, BB, Danueser PHD, LA853 QA HD FEL w JD toothbar, 3pt chisel, 3 pt disk, 6' shredder, Kubota FEL hay spike, 3pt hay fork w carryall, Kubota RTV 1140

  3. #23
    Veteran Member Gordon Gould's Avatar
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    Apr 2007
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    2,092
    Location
    NorthEastern, VT
    Tractor
    Kubota L3010DT, Dresser TD7G Dozer

    Default Re: Chain top link

    I feel that I owe Ken Sweet an apology for my arrogance and an
    explanation for my thinking.

    Imagine you are bush hogging up a very steep hill when the hog
    gets hung up on a stump. As you continue to apply power the
    front end of the tractor rotates upwards causing the rear lift arms
    to retract towards their upper position. When the lift arms reach
    their upper stops the top link will start to resist further rotation.
    Imagine that the hill is of such a steepness that the top link starts
    to resist just as the tractor reaches Top Dead Center. Now look at
    the lever system you have. The rear axle acts as the fulcrum and
    center of rotation. At the far end of the lever you have the weight
    of the tractor and FEL poised several feet vertically above the axle
    at the tractors center of gravity. Then you have the top link, splayed
    out at an angle. It is braced against the ground at one end and the
    other end is attached to the tractor (lever) only inches above the
    horizontal plane of the axle (fulcrum). This gives tremendous
    mechanical advantage to the weight of the tractor and its
    rotational momentum against the top link. The top link can offer
    very little resistance before it fails. It and it's short lever arm
    are no match against the tractor and it's long lever arm.

    Now, if the top link gets bent before the tractor reaches TDC, it
    will offer even less resistance in arresting rotation as it is weaker.

    In addition top links seem to bend relatively easily. Many of us have
    bent them. Often people say that they do not know how or when
    they got bent. This tells us something.

    This is why I belive that operating with a chain top link is not
    significantly more dangerous than using a fixed link. And why
    a top link probably does not prevent a flipped tractor.

    If you go where you shouldn't you'll get in trouble either way.

    gg
    "If you're not making any mistakes then you're not doing anything"

    L3010DT, Farmi JL290 Winch, ATI Grapple, BearCat 5" Chipper, 6' Rear Blade,
    7' Sickle Bar, 5' Land Plane Grading Scraper, Dresser TD7G Dozer

  4. #24
    Advertiser sweettractors's Avatar
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    Jul 2003
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    7,156
    Location
    Central Kentucky
    Tractor
    JD 6403 CHA-JD 3130 CHA

    Default Re: Chain top link

    No apology needed. I don't know much about all the engineering and fulcrum points, and weight distribution, etc, However, I know about "Everyday in the field experience" on many different brands of tractors and how they perform on my hilly 300+ acres. BTW, I know of no tractor manufacturers that offer a chain in place of a toplink when a new tractor is sold. I don't even know of any that sell a new tractor with a hydraulic toplink as standard equipment. I am not sure about this and I stand to be corrected. Ken Sweet
    http://www.sweetfarms.com/

    Sweet Farm Equipment LLC (Internet Sales, Shipping All States)
    Shipping Facility
    1815 Defries Rd., Canmer, Ky 42722 Toll Free 1-866-528-3323
    Ken Sweet sweet@scrtc.com

    Shipping Example: Can ship 800 lbs from Ky. to Dallas for $165
    The Northeast shipping corridor is a little more expensive.

  5. #25
    Gold Member
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    May 2010
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    Location
    N.E. Arkansas (transplant)

    Default Re: Chain top link

    There is some validity to both sides of this discussion, but as in many things, some common sense needs to be applied in all cases.
    I can't think of any cirucumstances that i'd use a flexible (chain or cable) top link on any sort of ground engagement type impliment, by reason of the basic design 3 point mounted tools.
    My reasoning is this: by design when you sink a tool in the ground, force is pushing against the front of that implement pushing on the front, and a flex top link will allow rotational force to pivot the implement on the mounting pins, whereas a rigid toplink actually provides a solid resistance to this tipping force against rotation. At the least allowing the back of an implement to float, there is the possibility of uneven depth engagement of the rear portion of a tool because of this floating attitude. There is no clear cut answer, because of the varied tool designs, weight balance factors etc.
    However, tools such as a bush hog, that due to the weight leverage factor on the back of the tool, a flexing top link does have some advantages on uneven ground.
    Refering to Ken Sweet's post about some front wheel lift on a steep hillside, and realizing there is a point of diminishing returns where at some angle, dependant on many factors, this could happen with any tractor, its quite possible for this to happen because of an improperly weighted front end. Particularly with a smaller lighter tractor and the leverage factor applied by a long heavy implement attached.
    with a long enough lever and a fulcrum anything can be moved but that movement may not always be the desired action.

  6. #26
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    143
    Location
    Ste-sophie, prov. of Quebec , Canada
    Tractor
    Massey Ferguson 1643 ,2010

    Default Re: Chain top link

    Quote Originally Posted by nickel plate View Post
    Hello Gordon,
    Can you tell me the manufacturer and model of the logging choker and cable slider and what size chain you are using? I have an upcoming need for that setup. Thanks, Jerry.
    Hi. i have those chooker hooks with my Farmi logging winch, there are standard with the winch. So any Farmi distributor can order some to you or have those chookers in stock. Roger

  7. #27
    Elite Member RalphVa's Avatar
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    Dec 2003
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    3,810
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA, USA
    Tractor
    JD 1025, previously Gravely 5650 & JD 4010

    Default Re: Chain top link

    I just bought some chain and some quick connect ends at Tractor Supply. One of the quick connects recently bent a bit on me. TSC no longer had them. Had to buy a U shaped one with a screw bolt to attach it to the top link point at the tractor with the "U" and the chain to the screw bolt.

    I really wonder why we bother with chains at all. Only problem I'd have is if I wanted to back out over the creek bank. The chain keeps the bush hog frame from dropping into the creek. However, in most cases, I only back up enough to lose the trail wheel over the precipice. The frame of the "hog" keeps it from going further.

    What good is the chain? After bending my nice quick connect gizmo, I'm wondering. Surely doesn't keep the "hog" from leaping up at the tractor if something makes it want to do so.

    Ralph
    The natural gardener
    God's original intent

  8. #28
    Super Star Member RoyJackson's Avatar
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    Nov 2001
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    18,657
    Location
    Bethel, Vermont
    Tractor
    John Deere 4400 MFWD, Deere 855D UTV, Z920A Zero Turn Mower and assorted implements

    Default Re: Chain top link

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Gould View Post
    I feel that I owe Ken Sweet an apology for my arrogance and an explanation for my thinking.

    Imagine you are bush hogging up a very steep hill...

    READ THE POST
    Why would you think the draft links would have to raise at all? The implement pins could easily just rotate about the "eyeball" in the draft links.

    Frankly, I think you're way overengineering to justify your position on the topic.
    Implements can jump...reckon we've all seen that (and I'd wager most of the jumping were by rotary cutters, but that a guess). In an upslope or down slope, that jump could be enough to rotate the implement about those draft links to hit the back of your tractor. The implement drive shaft has, by this time, wreaked your tractor's PTO (but probably reduced enough momentum to prevent injury or too much damage to your tractor).

    However, for you gents who use a chain toplink, knowing there's a danger..more power to you and be safe.
    Roy Jackson

    "Any government that does not trust its citizens with firearms is either a tyranny, or planning to become one."
    -Joseph P. Martino

  9. #29
    Veteran Member Gordon Gould's Avatar
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    NorthEastern, VT
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    Kubota L3010DT, Dresser TD7G Dozer

    Default Re: Chain top link

    I agree with you Roy and there are many other reasons a stiff top link is good. My post is all about the idea that a top link will keep you from going over backwards. I dont beleive it can.
    "If you're not making any mistakes then you're not doing anything"

    L3010DT, Farmi JL290 Winch, ATI Grapple, BearCat 5" Chipper, 6' Rear Blade,
    7' Sickle Bar, 5' Land Plane Grading Scraper, Dresser TD7G Dozer

  10. #30
    Platinum Member
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    Jun 2010
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    w.v.
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    ck30 kioti

    Default Re: Chain top link

    Ralph,you don't need any top link,chain or solid,they make pull brush hogs[not three point],but chain lets me raise it a little to look under,and like you said it keeps back from dropping and drive shaft coming apart. But one thing it don't do is keep back from coming up.

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