Rolled my Tractor and it blew up ???

[SteveCornell]

I hope the mods don't mind the double posting going on with this subject in 2 different sections but I want to share this experience and results with everyone so hopefully we can all learn and find a solution to prevent this from happening to someone else.

KTurner, the CO2 would simply replace the "flammable" air mixture (oxygen rich) with an inert (non flammable) air and the engine would die because without the proper oxygen rich mixture combustion could not occur, now just pointing a CO2 fire extinguisher at the tractor would not do it, the CO2 would need to directed into the air intake to choke off the oxygen, but if you can't get to the intake???

I'm up and on my 2nd cup of coffee, I'll be going out in a bit and checking the tractor out, thanks for everyones suggestions and comments.
The key was turned off as soon as the tractor hit the ground, I was too busy trying to get away from it for the 3 seconds it was rolling over to analyze everything that should be done to stop the engine, the tractor should have died as soon as my *** left the seat but it did not, it immediately started running on it's own.
I was not wearing my seat belt, I usually do in steep situations but in this particular case it probably allowed my to get out of the way of the tractor, if the tractor had come on over, I would have been better off to be buckled in and ride it out but in this "particular case" not having it on probably prevented any injury, will I have it on the next time I operate the tractor?, YES, even on flat ground as I feel that the seat belt more times than not will prevent injuries, just not in this case.
I'm not an inexperienced operator, I've operated heavy machinery all my life and have been in many bad situations and believe me I was doing my best to get to the air intake as I knew that this would kill the engine if everything else failed but it was not possible with the position of the tractor, rags, sock, underwear, or a fire extinguisher don't work if you can't get to the air intake, here is some info on the emergency air shut off 4261 - Intake Air Shutoff Valves these can be operated by a switch, rpms, manual pull cable, air, etc, the ones I have used in the past are spring loaded and the switch \ cable releases the latch and allows the kill to close, you then have to manually reset the kill (re-cock) I'm looking for sources as I'm convinced that every diesel engine should be equipped with one.

Again thanks for everyones concerns and suggestions, I'll be reporting back in a couple hours.

Thanks!
Steve

 

[KTurner]

KTurner, the CO2 would simply replace the "flammable" air mixture (oxygen rich) with an inert (non flammable) air and the engine would die because without the proper oxygen rich mixture combustion could not occur, now just pointing a CO2 fire extinguisher at the tractor would not do it, the CO2 would need to directed into the air intake to choke off the oxygen, but if you can't get to the intake???

I understand the concept of replacing the air with an inert material and that it doesn't work if you can't get the inert material to the intake.

I'm asking whether that inert material, by itself, would damage the engine in anyway. As in, can anyone give me a reason I should not start turning off my diesel tractor by spraying the intake with a fire extinguisher every time?

Does it break down the oil? Does it form ice crystals that do bad things? Hydrolock risk?

Keith

 

[Willl]

Fire extinguisher (Would Halon be best? It seems like the common dry chemical would get filtered out, hopefully blocking the air intake)

When I said "Fire extinguisher down the snout" was meaning the dry chemical type and it does just what your thinking, clogs up the air filter right now.
No air, no run.

Haven't experienced if CO2 would work. Stands to reason it would though.

 

[Soundguy]

Don't forget compression.

What a crappy situation to be in. Far less crappy than being under the tractor listening to the motor run out though. Thank god you are OK and the tractor is the one who broke.

Agree with Island, don't understand why they've done away with compression release valves, they are handy for a bunch of reasons, like spinning the motor to get oil pressure in the winter.

I'm sorry for the loss of the tractor motor, happy for no loss to your family.

Joel

my guess they went away for 2 reasons.. 1, no longer needed for easy starting on most machines, and 2, extra parts / extra expense that in most cases aren't needed ( see #1 ).

though I agree.. a comp release would have shut her down.

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

If it was actually running on its own lubricating oil for 10 minutes, maybe the engine is still salvagable- as someone said, let it drain, replace all the filters and oil, and hope for the best. Doesn't sound like it hydro-locked on oil. Better look at the tranny fluid and battery, as well. On the positive side, this could have had another outcome, where the engine wouldn't be your concern, now or ever.

hopefully the sump was providing oil to the oil pump or he may have cam, crank journal issues as well as main and rod beairngs that need replacing.

once it is upright, sure wouldn't hurt to look.

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

halon or co2 would be my guess.

I'd think high gear and brakes wouldn't do much. every tractor I own will drive of fin high gear with the brakes locked. simply too much hp to overcome.

soundguy

Glad you weren't hurt. If the engine is toast it certainly won't hurt to inquire with Kubota as well as your homeowners or any other insurance you have that might apply.

Thanks for posting - this is a very educational topic. It looks like the options for a rollover induced runaway are:

Block the air intake. If the crankase ventilation system is vulnerable go after that.

Use compression release

Fire extinguisher (Would Halon be best? It seems like the common dry chemical would get filtered out, hopefully blocking the air intake)

Put it in high gear, apply the brake, and release the clutch. Scary if the engine is overspeeding.

I just had the idea of putting a tarp over the whole thing so it recirculates and runs out of oxygen. Some kind of hose or other improvised way of recirculating the exhaust might also work. If you're in the woods it might be hard to find something.

Would it work to axe the exhaust pipe and kink it to restrict flow? Once you overcome the compression ratio it should lose the ability to draw in air. Of course the muffler might blow out and possibly cause injury.

Brad

 

[Soundguy]

I understand the concept of replacing the air with an inert material and that it doesn't work if you can't get the inert material to the intake.

I'm asking whether that inert material, by itself, would damage the engine in anyway. As in, can anyone give me a reason I should not start turning off my diesel tractor by spraying the intake with a fire extinguisher every time?

Does it break down the oil? Does it form ice crystals that do bad things? Hydrolock risk?

Keith

be reasonable! turn your tractor off the way the manufacturer meant you to.

the co2 method would be a last ditch to kill a runaway.

there is already co2 in the atmosphere... it's not going to overtly damage the engine past what's already being done to it in a runaway.

soundugy

 

[Soundguy]

another arm chair idea.

I'm not familiar witht he injection pump system on that tractor.. but am guessing it is a key/off fuel solenoid.

any chance that inthe roll the solenoid got stuck, and / or the rack in the pump got stuck?

soundguy

 

[SteveCornell]

Well it appears I'm very lucky in more ways than one......

Went out this morning and replaced all the fuses I pulled last night, I added about 3 quarts of oil, this got it back up in the operating range, I was thinking about pulling the injectors as some had suggested but after awhile I decided to see if it would turn over, I hit the starter and it fired up just like always..... no smoke, no unusual noises..... I went to town and picked up some more Rotella Syn. and came home and changed the oil and filter, degreased the front of the tractor where all the oil blew out and power washed it, there was a small amount of oil on both the inner and outer air filters so I'll replace them.

It appears the engine is OK, the only explanation to this is indeed it had to be running on it's own oil and once the oil got low enough that it quit running into the cylinders (or out the vent line)the tractor quit, there was still a couple quarts of oil scattered throughout the engine so I guess this protected it.

I'm guessing the crankcase vent line is run into the intake air and the oil came through the vent line into the intake (the reason I have oil on my air filters) and was sucked into the engine that way, I don't think it blew past the rings, it had to come through the crankcase vent into the air intake, I may look at rerouting this as well.

I don't think a fire extinguisher is the answer to a runaway engine, the only real solution to prevent this from happening is an emergency air kill which I will be adding as soon as I locate one.

This may never happen again (I hope not) but the next time it does I will have a switch or handle to shut the air off.

Thanks for everyones comments and suggestions, I'll post back and start another topic when I locate an air kill.

Steve

 

[sweettractors]

Great news You lucked out in more ways than one. Ken Sweet