Traction Adding fluid to rear tires. Questions

[Reg]

I wonder how the added weight of the liquid causes a performance loss or excessive wear on the ground drive parts, HST etc

If those parts are fragile they will likely fail anyway, if not a few hundred pounds likely won't accelerate wear significantly, i.e. not getting stuck saves wear on almost everything.
Here's an odd rule of thumb, for any given tractor with R4 tires (which hold significantly more fluid than R1s) a 75% load of Rimguard adds about the same as a backhoe and subframe.
The difference is that fluid in tires isn't "carried" by the tractor, it is somewhat akin to pulling the weight on a trailer, except you don't have the additional drag of trailer wheels

Rough guess; Your tractor with R4s would take about 1200 lbs of RimGuard.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

On the big tractors weight all the time is probably a good thing, I don't know that answer; once it is in their you are stuck with that weight whether you need it or not. On my little BX 25, the added weight (100#/tire) is insignificant. The BH weighs almost 600# so counterbalances the FEL OK. I decided to use suitcase weights in 50# increments on either front or back depending what needs to counterbalance (I have 10 of them). Only add what I need. I think this is the best world for CUTS and SCUTS.

Ron

 

[joeu235]

To correctly ballast a tractor, do the following: Make a mark on the rear tire and a mark on the ground.. Under full pulling load like a disk/mouldboard/chisel plow you move forward until you've traveled to where the mark on the tire is back centered on the ground. Measure how far you actually went, subtract this distance from the diameter of the tire and then divide the result by the diameter of tire. The tire should slip 10% under full load.

 

[oosik]

My tractor came with Rimguard installed in the rear tires. Tires - 16.9x28 - 69 gallons/tire - 738#/tire. That means each tire, Rimguard & wheel combo weigh over 1000# each. I'm simply not set up to handle any work that may happen on a tire that weighs that much.

That's where my local Les Schwab dealer comes into the picture.

My previous tractor had CaCl solution in the rears and I cursed it every year. The CaCl solution would "dissolve" the core - the tire stem would leak/weep solution and I would end up having to instal a new core.

I've had Rimguard, in the new tractor, now six years and not a moments problems.

The price of Rimguard - last year - was right at $2/gallon and that did not include installation.

 

[Reg]

To correctly ballast a tractor, do the following: Make a mark on the rear tire and a mark on the ground.. Under full pulling load like a disk/mouldboard/chisel plow you move forward until you've traveled to where the mark on the tire is back centered on the ground. Measure how far you actually went, subtract this distance from the diameter of the tire and then divide the result by the diameter of tire. The tire should slip 10% under full load.

That is a fair rule of thumb, but would you take fluid OUT of a tire if it slips less than that ? If it slips how much less ?
Is it overloaded if you only get 5% slip ? Again, would you take fluid OUT ?

 

[Reg]

My tractor came with Rimguard installed in the rear tires. Tires - 16.9x28 - 69 gallons/tire - 738#/tire. That means each tire, Rimguard & wheel combo weigh over 1000# each. I'm simply not set up to handle any work that may happen on a tire that weighs that much.

That's where my local Les Schwab dealer comes into the picture.

My previous tractor had CaCl solution in the rears and I cursed it every year. The CaCl solution would "dissolve" the core - the tire stem would leak/weep solution and I would end up having to instal a new core.

I've had Rimguard, in the new tractor, now six years and not a moments problems.

The price of Rimguard - last year - was right at $2/gallon and that did not include installation.

That is a fair price, I paid $3 about a decade ago and I picked that up myself at the dealers in 55 gallon drums.

!,000 lbs is EASY to handle with an engine crane if you are CAREFUL. No need to be retentive about it, just don't be careless.
Even a cheap one from harbor freight can handle 1,000 lbs at full boom extension, 4,000 at shortest boom extension.
Just get the rim well secured to the engine crane before you jack up the tractor and start removing lug nuts.

As to what you can DO with that tire once you get it off... With a little planning you can probably get it onto a pickup with the crane.
Then take it to a tire service shop.
If not get it into the bucket, raise that and bring the pickup to the (STILL ON AXLE STANDS) tractor.
OBVIOUSLY you need to chock the tractor's other wheels WELL if you plan to use the loader as a lift while it is on axle stands.
I find no difficulty rolling 1,000 lb wheel/tires around, but I am ready to hop. If one gets out of control I'll let it go.
I am NOT confident enough to try rolling a 1,000 lb wheel up a trailer ramp, that would take some speed (momentum) - I think that would be a dumb trick.
Search You tube, somebody has probably done it on a 2 x 8

 

[k0ua]

That is a fair price, I paid $3 about a decade ago and I picked that up myself at the dealers in 55 gallon drums.

!,000 lbs is EASY to handle with an engine crane if you are CAREFUL. No need to be retentive about it, just don't be careless.
Even a cheap one from harbor freight can handle 1,000 lbs at full boom extension, 4,000 at shortest boom extension.
Just get the rim well secured to the engine crane before you jack up the tractor and start removing lug nuts.

As to what you can DO with that tire once you get it off... With a little planning you can probably get it onto a pickup with the crane.
Then take it to a tire service shop.
If not get it into the bucket, raise that and bring the pickup to the (STILL ON AXLE STANDS) tractor.
OBVIOUSLY you need to chock the tractor's other wheels WELL if you plan to use the loader as a lift while it is on axle stands.
I find no difficulty rolling 1,000 lb wheel/tires around, but I am ready to hop. If one gets out of control I'll let it go.
I am NOT confident enough to try rolling a 1,000 lb wheel up a trailer ramp, that would take some speed (momentum) - I think that would be a dumb trick.
Search You tube, somebody has probably done it on a 2 x 8

This is what I did the one time I had a puncture in the right rear tire of my Old Long 2360. I cannot remember the tire size, but it was plenty big. I carefully rolled it around to the front of the tractor still on jack stands and used its loader to get the tire lifted into the bed of my pickup to take it to the tire dealer for repair. The biggest problem was getting the wheel lined up to get the bolts back in it after the repair. That was quite a struggle. Of course I had my wife to help, and we were mindful to never let the tire/wheel start to tip over.

 

[vtsnowedin]

That is a fair rule of thumb, but would you take fluid OUT of a tire if it slips less than that ? If it slips how much less ?
Is it overloaded if you only get 5% slip ? Again, would you take fluid OUT ?

Usually Fluid ballast is only part of the ballast needed and by itself won't get you to under ten percent slippage pulling a full load. Add the fluid then check it and add more weight if needed. Most of us don't spend days at a time pulling a plow or disk so it is a bit academic. Where the fluid in the tires really comes into play for most of us is properly ballasting the tractor when using the loader. there you need the fluid PLUS a good sized weight on the 3point hitch for both safety and to reduce wear and tear on the front axle.

 

[Reg]

Usually Fluid ballast is only part of the ballast needed and by itself won't get you to under ten percent slippage pulling a full load. Add the fluid then check it and add more weight if needed. Most of us don't spend days at a time pulling a plow or disk so it is a bit academic. Where the fluid in the tires really comes into play for most of us is properly ballasting the tractor when using the loader. there you need the fluid PLUS a good sized weight on the 3point hitch for both safety and to reduce wear and tear on the front axle.

Sketch it out some time, rear wheel ballast, whether liquid or plates, does NOTHING to relieve the front end from loader stress, it merely counter balances the load in the bucket AROUND the front end.
A teeter totter, in which the front wheels are the pivot.
Weight BEHIND the rear axle unloads the front end, but you need a LOT of it quite far out, e.g. a backhoe.
Think of that as a teeter totter around the rear axle.
The front tires are more likely than the front axle to benefit from counter weight behind the rear axle.
ESPECIALLY when using R1s, which are NOT rated for loader use.

PS A useful bookmark: http://www.rimguard.biz/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Hydro-Flation-tables-2014-PDF.pdf

 

[vtsnowedin]

Sketch it out some time, rear wheel ballast, whether liquid or plates, does NOTHING to relieve the front end from loader stress, it merely counter balances the load in the bucket AROUND the front end.
A teeter totter, in which the front wheels are the pivot.
Weight BEHIND the rear axle unloads the front end, but you need a LOT of it quite far out, e.g. a backhoe.
Think of that as a teeter totter around the rear axle.
The front tires are more likely than the front axle to benefit from counter weight behind the rear axle.
ESPECIALLY when using R1s, which are NOT rated for loader use.

PS A useful bookmark: http://www.rimguard.biz/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Hydro-Flation-tables-2014-PDF.pdf

Liquid ballast or rear wheel weights while not acting as front axle counter balance do put enough weight on that end of the teeter toter to keep the rear wheels on the ground. Having them on the ground provides side to side stability and braking which would be none existent in a two wheel drive tractor with it's rears raised and limited to the much smaller contact patch of the front tires on a tractor with 4WD engaged. Going down a ramp with a load in the bucket without enough weight on the back can get quite exciting even if just part of the weight on the rears is balanced forward reducing the friction potential of a stopped tire. Having the rears loaded keeps this much weight with you all the time so you don't have to hook onto a rear weight every time you want to pick a small or mid sized load.
Also having a backhoe on isn't going to work if you want to pull a disc ,plow or other heavy implement that doesn't put much down pressure on the draw bar or hitch.
My tractor came with R1s and the loader and Beet Juice in the rears. The owners manual says to put 2000 lbs on the 3PH when loading heavy material. If that combination is wrong there are a lot of wrong setups out there.