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  1. #21
    Super Member 5030's Avatar
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    Feb 2003
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    6,000
    Location
    Michigan, S.E. Monroe County
    Tractor
    Kubota M9000 Hyd Kubota M105 shuttle

    Default Re: CDL licenses....

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( Wow, you guys can run 121K legally? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] In my state 105.5K is the max unless you have a non reduceable load and special permits. )</font>

    161,000 pounds gross to be exact and that's not with a permit, that's everyday. The next poster states he thinks it is 160, it actually 161.

    Without getting too techinical:
    161,000=
    8 axle trailer x 13,000 per axle
    2 drive axles=34,000 per tandem
    1 steer axle=23,000 (based on tire width ballon tires)

    8 axle trailers are for the most part spring suspended. If you have air suspension, you are allowed 18,000 per axle so long as the axles are 10' 1" center to center. Thus, the ideal trailer length is 48 foot to give you the inner bridge on a tight 8 axle or on a quad like I have. It's pretty complicated and I get a kick out of out-of-state truckers asking me "what are all those axles for?". I say "those are spare tires in case I get a flat"

    Daryl
    Forage Services L.P.

  2. #22
    Epic Contributor Bird's Avatar
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    Mar 2000
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    39,489
    Location
    Texas

    Default Re: CDL licenses....

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( He must not had a "Jake Brake". )</font>

    I guess that's a possibility although I find it a little hard to believe anyone would attempt that trip in a big truck without a Jack Brake. And of course we could only speculate as to the cause of the fire since there was no one around and no kind of services in either direction for a hundred miles and the truck was sitting on level ground at the bottom of that long steep hill. We had gone up the day before (July 4, 1991, weekend) and of course that truck wasn't there then.

    Since that road was not open to the public, there were no weight limits at all. They had a staging area at the south end where they could assemble and load anything they thought they could handle. The oddest thing we saw (and was sure sorry I didn't get a picture) was a completely assembled drilling tower standing upright on a low boy truck. I don't know how tall it was, but am sure it was well over 50' tall. We met that rig as we were coming back, too, and of course he asked on the radio what the road was like behind us (rub board for 125 miles [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]. We were doing 15 mph and rattling our teeth, he said he hoped to make 10 mph).

  3. #23
    Super Member 5030's Avatar
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    Feb 2003
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    Location
    Michigan, S.E. Monroe County
    Tractor
    Kubota M9000 Hyd Kubota M105 shuttle

    Default Re: CDL licenses....

    </font><font color="blue" class="small">( and we have the chuck-holes, ruts, ripples, cracks and general)</font>

    The reason why the roads are the way they are in Michigan is not due to the trucks but rather 1. The roads are subject to freezing/thawing like is going on now and 2. Most roads in Michigan are not built with the proper drainage for the sub-surface. Most of Michigan is sandy loam and this tends not to make a good road bed anyway. Think about it, in 99% of the states, 80,000 pounds gross is the norm and that is on 5 axles. That means that for each tandem axle set the load is 34,000 pounds and the steer axle is 12,000 pounds. That means that each axle with the exception of the steer is exerting 17,000 pounds of weight on the road surface as opposed to 13,000 pounds in Michigan. Actually, your per-square-inch of ACTUAL tire loading in Michigan is less than other states. The ACTUAL per-square-inch of tire loading is what destroy's the roads, not multiple axles or for that matter the gross load of the combination. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

    Daryl
    Forage Services L.P.

  4. #24

    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    121
    Location
    Caledonia, MI
    Tractor
    TC40D w/ss

    Default Re: CDL licenses....

    3050,
    So - 1. No other northern climate states have a freeze/thaw cycle. 2. Michigan road builders are unskilled in the art of proper drainage. 3. What happens when you pickup you air axles for a turn? Where does all the extra weight go? You are correct in the fact that per axle PSI is less, and MDOT says that is how road damage occurs. They also say that these larger truck loads (up to 164,000 lbs with out special permit) are not the cause of road damage unless the truck is overweight on a per axle basis. Considering Michigan's record of load enforcement, individual load distribution, (I know you have a gauge for each axle but are you the exception or the rule?) this probably occurs on a regular basis, especially by the short haul sand/gravel haulers. Some how I can't understand how you can carry twice the load weight in the same distance of truck length (Tractor nose to trailer tail) and not tear up the road. Why have not other states adopted our lighter per axle laws? Maybe we just need to adjust the per axle weight of the trucks to the level of engineering skill Michigan road builders can provide.

    This is not a personal attack against any professional truck driver who follows the law, and certainly not 3050, you guys have to drive on the same roads I do. But I am also sure that cars/SUVs/light trucks are not the cause and we as a state a sure do have cr@ppy roads.
    -
    Nick

  5. #25
    New Member
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    Default Re: CDL licenses....

    "Maybe we just need to adjust the per axle weight of the trucks to the level of engineering skill Michigan road builders can provide. "
    It's not possible to put that many axels and tires under a truck.
    Don't feel alone, we know how to build roads in New York, but we don't cause the construction unions prevent it from happening. The taxpayer must keep them in work according to their thinking.

  6. #26
    New Member
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    Default Re: CDL licenses....

    In California we know how to build roads. Maintaining them on the other hand... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

  7. #27
    Gold Member hosejockey2002's Avatar
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    Mar 2002
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    403
    Location
    Auburn, WA
    Tractor
    Kioti CK20 HST

    Default Re: CDL licenses....

    It is interesting how laws vary from state to state. Obviously where you are your lift axles can be operated from the driver's seat, otherwise you would never be able to turn a corner. In Washington many dump trucks have one lift axle and sometimes two, but state law says the lift axle cannot be operated from the driver's seat. I believe the same goes for trailer lift axles. It's also interesting you can go 23K on the steer axle. Around here I'm pretty sure its 20 or 21. Its been a few years since I've done any truck driving and the rules seem to constantly change.

  8. #28
    Super Member 5030's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    Michigan, S.E. Monroe County
    Tractor
    Kubota M9000 Hyd Kubota M105 shuttle

    Default Re: CDL licenses....

    The case of weight/roads/axles/revenue has been going on since Michigan inacted their weight laws years ago. I do agree that Michigan should be 80 gross like other states, but it was originally the auto manufacturers that pushed for the higher weight limits so that they could get more of their raw materials to their shops in a timely manner. I understand the weight law/requirement very well as I deal with it everyday but let me cite this example......

    In Ohio I can gross 121,000 on my tractor trailer on designated routes simply by buying a $45.00 permit. However, I CANNOT RUN WITH MY LIFT-CABCONTROLLED-AXLES DOWN. I can only have 5 FIVE axles on the ground according to ODOT rules and the permit. How's that for per-square-inch of tire loading??? Many of these "designated roads" are 2 lane blacktop and they are not falling apart. You explain to me the difference, I'm no engineer, just a truck driver-farmer. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

    Daryl
    Forage Services, L.P.

  9. #29
    Super Member 5030's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    6,000
    Location
    Michigan, S.E. Monroe County
    Tractor
    Kubota M9000 Hyd Kubota M105 shuttle

    Default Re: CDL licenses....

    Those dump truck axles are "steerable". That is, the stub axles are mounted on knuckles with heavy springs attached to keep them straight unless the truck is turning. Then the tire follows the turn the truck is taking. We do the same thing here in Michigan on short wheelbase units.

    Daryl
    Forage Services, L.P.

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