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  1. #11
    PJR
    PJR is offline

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    38
    Location
    Buckley, WA
    Tractor
    John deere 970 440 loader 72

    Default Re: puffs at high idle

    Thcri,

    I use dextron 2 that I buy a Napa Auto, You can use half qt. in 7 gallons no problem

    In fact when I change fuel filters I fill the filter half full of ATF to give the injectors a good cleaning.

    I have done that way for 15 years and have had no problems. I know it sounds funny but it works great.

    PJR

  2. #12
    Elite Member thcri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    4,641
    Location
    Minnesota SE
    Tractor
    New Holland TC29D, 2001

    Default Re: puffs at high idle

    PJR,

    Thanks a bunch. I will give that a try. I bought a tractor brand new tractor that actually sat on a lot over the winter. The tank must have been empty for this period. When I got the tractor home during the first tank it started spitting black smoke out and lost all of its power. The fuel filter was full of crud and water. I think I have gotten everything out of it but there is times when I feel it has lost power. Anyway I feel like I should continue being pro-active and keep trying to clean everything yet.

    murph

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    43

    Default Re: puffs at high idle

    FYI,

    Spent most of the day Saturday troubleshooting over the phone with Bill of Barnett Tractor Co. which is where I bought the Hinomoto. He has been very helpful and patient.

    Unfortunately we narrowed it down to a problem with the injector pump. We hoped it was just the timing, but I removed a shim to no avail. The problem is getting progressively worse.

    The good thing is that Bill gives a 6 month warrantee on the gray market tractors he sells, and he is going to have the pump rebuilt for me. I'm shipping it off tomorrow.

    Thanks for all the good advice.

    Jeff

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    2,518
    Location
    Capital District, Upstate New York
    Tractor
    Satoh S650G, MF135, MF165, JD5205

    Default Re: puffs at high idle

    <font color="blue">I'm shipping it off tomorrow </font>

    Hi Jeff,

    Before you pull the injection pump... did you try fresh diesel fuel...? It will take you less time to try different fuel versus removing and replacing a non-defective pump and still have the same problem…

    I don’t mean to disagree… but I really think you have a bad batch of fuel and Not the pump…

    These are your original words: <font color="blue">… I have been operating it for about a month, and it has been running great. I filled the tank this weekend, and noticed something different… </font>

    I just don’t want you to dig a deep hole that doesn’t need to be dug… [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    43

    Default Re: puffs at high idle

    I drained about half of that tank, and added some "fresh" off road diesel with a little ATF added. I changed the fuel filter, and bled the lines.

    Things just seemed to get worse.

    We ran throug some diagnostics to rule out problems with the injectors, then started looking at timing. Adjusting the timing didn't make a difference, so we concluded that the pump was going.

    I still think it is strange that it was running so beautifully, and then started messing up so quickly.

    After reading your comment, I talked to Bill, and think it is worth draining the whole tank, and trying again with new fuel. I would hate for him to have to shell out all that money to repair a pump that doesn't need it.

    If this doesn't get it, however, I don't know what else it could be.

    Thanks,

    Jeff

  6. #16

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    43

    Default Re: puffs at high idle

    By the way,

    What should one do with about 10 gallons of diesel that may not be fit for a machine?

    I don't know anyone with an oil furnace, otherwise I thought that might be good. We run heavy equipment at work, and maybe I could mix it in with about 100 gallons in the truck tank. Don't know how to suggest that to the operators though,

    "Hey, I've got some potentially contaminated diesel here. Do you mind if I put it in your machine?" [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    2,518
    Location
    Capital District, Upstate New York
    Tractor
    Satoh S650G, MF135, MF165, JD5205

    Default Re: puffs at high idle

    You may want to pinch off the fuel line (rubberized section) going to the pump... to keep air out... before you drain the tank...

    With the fuel tank fully drained and empty... take a flashlight and take a look-see and see what lurks inside... any debris you can clean up while it's empty... now's the time to do it... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    Put some drained diesel fuel in couple glass gallon jugs and put them aside... take a look at the mix in a couple days... hopefully you won't have a "mix" of fuel and something else... but you could...

    Take a rag and drain the fuel filter assembly, clean up inside and replace with a new filter... buy your next batch of fuel from a 24 hour truck stop... don't use any ATF fluid... just straight diesel... now is not the time to experiment... besides you get something else inside that pump... you don't need a problem of non-warranty claim " because a trace of ATF was found..."

    Jeff, I'm confident you'll get your baby going again in short order... contaminated diesel fuel will cause weird problems and have you running around in multiple directions... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Posts
    1,806
    Location
    Houston, TX.
    Tractor
    2001 TN65, 1951 8N Ford

    Default Re: puffs at high idle

    I have dealt with at least a hundred, and probably more, tanks of contaminated fuel, gas and diesel, over the years. I have had no luck only draining a small amount of bad fuel out and replacing it with new. And fuel drying additves are just about useless. I've had a little luck draining if the tank has a drain plug, none if it doesn't. If the tank has any build up of crap in it at all the water and fuel drier will wash it loose and it will keep coming back to haunt you. ATF works like pure detergent. It has to to keep the valves in an automatic from varnishing up. Diesel fuel has an algae that grows in it. Add that to whatever else has precipitated to the bottom of your tank over the years and then wash it loose and leave it floating in your tank or emulsified with your fuel. Add a layer of water on the tank bottom.Get my point? If you can completely drain the tank and then see inside of it with a flashlight and there is absolutely nothing there you can get away with a filter and a fresh tank of fuel. Any dark spots or rust spots or anything that doesn't look like clean shiny metal means you need to pull the tank and have it cleaned. You can get brave with a gas motor, it is relatively easy to clean out the fuel bowl on a carburator. That diesel injection pump, however is totally unforgiving and it isn't cheap, either.

  9. #19

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    43

    Default Re: puffs at high idle

    I went ahead and drained all of the fuel from the tank. As the last of it was draining, there was quite a bit of water that came out with it. When it was about empty, I shined a light in the tank and could see some white milky stuff draining out.

    I went to a 24 hour truck stop this morning and got a fresh tank of fuel. I added a little to the tank on the tractor as it was draining to try to get the rest of the water out. I really tried to remove the tank to clean it out thoroughly, but could not get it out. The steering wheel has to come off to remove the sheet metal that all the gages and such are attached to. I must not have the right tool because I could not get the wheel off.

    Anyway, I put in a new fuel filter, reinstalled the pump, and filled the tank about half way with the fresh fuel (no additives). Runs smooth as silk at all throttle settings.

    Obviously water is the culprit. I just don't know if the water was in the fuel I added, or if it is water that cannot be removed from the tank. Could be that when the fuel gets near empty in the tractor, it pulls more of the water in with the fuel and jams up the fuel filter. That would not explain why I still had problems on Saturday after replacing the filter. Hopefully it was just a bad batch of fuel.

    Thanks for your help. I'm really glad I stepped back and tried this before sending in the injector pump.

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Posts
    1,806
    Location
    Houston, TX.
    Tractor
    2001 TN65, 1951 8N Ford

    Default Re: puffs at high idle

    Glad to hear it worked out O.K.. You might have just had a condensation problem that finally caught up to you. Those used imported tractors sit around docks at both ends of the trip with empty fuel tanks. Throw in an ocean voyage and who knows how long that tractor has set around in a high humidity enviroment. You just might have dropped fuel in the tank and kicked up stuff that was already on the bottom. The heavy equipment courses I've taken have always insisted that you fill the equipment tanks every night to keep from having space in there for condensation to form.

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