Backhoe Setting up TLB on wonky ground.

[PatasColo]

My Kioti CK20S with backhoe is fairly new to me. As I go to set up for backhoe usage, the front wheels are s'posed to get raised just off the ground by putting down the FEL bucket (lip tipped slightly down to dig in if there is movement).

Some ground around my place is solid sandstone rock layers, and lots of variation in angles/slopes. I find it is not uncommon that one side of the FEL may touch ground/rock an inch or two before the other side. I've been repositioning to avoid this, but I'm concerned for a time when it can't be done (i.e. a tight spot that needs digging has wonky rock layers all around). It torques the FEL arms and might bend something in bad ways, even if only slightly (for example, so that if I ever removed the FEL, it might be impossible to get back on).

Any comments or experience with this? Suggestions, aside from avoiding it as much as possible?
-Mitch

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

couple of choices:

1) carry a couple 6 or so 2*6's with you and put them on the low side as needed. Get 1 1/2" of shimming per board
2) use your BH or FEL to cut it flat
3) take care and do not set your bucket on the gnd if your BH work is gentle and you think you are within a safe op environment.

I have / do all 3 all the time on a Kubota B2620 to avoid bending the FEL arms or bucket.

 

[murphy1244]

My Kioti CK20S with backhoe is fairly new to me. As I go to set up for backhoe usage, the front wheels are s'posed to get raised just off the ground by putting down the FEL bucket (lip tipped slightly down to dig in if there is movement).

Some ground around my place is solid sandstone rock layers, and lots of variation in angles/slopes. I find it is not uncommon that one side of the FEL may touch ground/rock an inch or two before the other side. I've been repositioning to avoid this, but I'm concerned for a time when it can't be done (i.e. a tight spot that needs digging has wonky rock layers all around). It torques the FEL arms and might bend something in bad ways, even if only slightly (for example, so that if I ever removed the FEL, it might be impossible to get back on).

Any comments or experience with this? Suggestions, aside from avoiding it as much as possible?
-Mitch

Why do you do that, too much stress on the frame.

 

[jenkinsph]

Mitch,
I was working out of Durango a year or so back and nothing was level or even. As you probably know lots of large round stream bed rocks everywhere which prevent you from setting the bucket down on even ground.

What I would recommend it to set your bucket down flat and lower it to the point you fell it just start to raise the tractor. I would not recommend you use the method you described as this can be too hard on the machine.

 

[PatasColo]

Why do you do that, too much stress on the frame.

I want to get some clarity from both Murphy and Jenkins...

Murphy, if I gave the mis-impression that I continued to set the bucket down when it was contacting one side first, I didn't mean to. I have been avoiding this by re-positioning the tractor, but I anticipate times when this may not be possible. Am looking for alternatives approaches.

Jenkins, I was trying to figure out if you were referring only to the bucket contacting one side first, or other details... seemed like possibly the latter. I read numerous posts and folks I've spoken with indicate the front wheels should be slightly off ground, to avoid any twist or other force to the front axle. Yes, you could leave them only slightly contacted to the ground, but then any small change in the tractor's stance may create more contact, resulting in the front axle receiving some of the force. Consensus is that that is always bad. Could you clarify your thoughts for me? (TIA.)

For the bucket, I've wondered a bit if it should have the lip slightly down, or flat. One long-time tractor and backhoe mechanic and operator told me it should be slightly down, as any backward pushing force would cause it to dig in slightly and maintain your stability. On the other hand, I could see where someone would say "it then creates an anchor against which you can twist and bust the tractor." Both are true, so it's hard to know which is the most recommendable method.

In the manual for my backhoe (KB2465) , it states in several places that you should never operate the backhoe with the rear wheels off the ground. It does not give any other direction with regard to the front wheels or the bucket.

Any further or follow-up comments, experience?
-Mitch

 

[swick1]

Just get yourself level by raising one side. Don't overthink it. They are built for this. The manual caution is just for the lawyers. I setup with an uneven bucket all the time on my 1026r. No problems at 221 hrs

 

[pat32rf]

I level the tractor up with my landing gear (outriggers). If I need to anchor the tractor any more than what 4whd,low range will do, I lower the bucket.
When I need to move the tractor I reach around, raise the bucket, pull the range lever into N and push or pull with the hoe. If the ground is too uneven to move this way, then I move to the tractor seat and drive forwards or back.
The forces exerted on an uneven FEL bucket won't be any more than using the FEL for digging in uneven rocky ground. (the only kind we have around here)

 

[Jesse masterson]

If there. Built that fragile there not worth having

 

[Gary Fowler]

If there. Built that fragile there not worth having

I tend to agree with this statement. If setting the FEL bucket on the ground unlevel is going to torque the frame, then it would really bent it when using the full force of the tractor to push into an unlevel dirt pile. I think everyone is over thinking this in regard to the FEL frame. It should be plenty strong to not bend.
Due to some very rough handling with the FEL on my Yanmar, I had broke a couple of welds on the frame which allowed for some bending so that the bucket was about 2" lower on one side. When trying to bend it back to level on the bucket, I put timbers under one side, picked the front wheels off the ground and pushed down with my LS on the other. It picked the rear tire up off the ground on the opposite side and still didnt torque the frame like I wanted it too. Without turning the tractor over, I was only able to get it back to within 3/4" of level when trying my best to bend the frame back the way it was. They are stronger than you would think.

Regarding how to set the bucket. I have seen operation do several ways from setting flat to extending the curl full so the bucket sets upside down as pictured in Kubota website for the B26. I think the object is to get the tractor level front to back and side to side so when you dig, you can dig a level bottom ditch with plumb sides. If the ground is not sloping much, placing the bucket flat will allow up to 5 or more inches, depending on your tractors design. If you need more lift then you have to invert the bucket to get more

 

[jenkinsph]

Mitch,
Recognize that the front axles can oscillate 15 degrees or better so as long as you take some of the load off the axles you should be okay. A good backhoe doesn't need the ground to be perfect to use it. At the same time I wouldn't wan't to put the bucket down with one edge contactiong a high boulder leaving the other side up in the air.

For most work I set my front bucket lip flat on the ground, sometimes the machine might be moved a few inches, that is better than straining the machine and frame. The more seat time you get the less trouble you have with this, most of it is caused by wrong bucket angle and raising the machine with the boom and dipper stick.