Oil & Fuel Problem: Oil spitting out of.... on my Ford 841

[papahags]

I am not sure what part this is (can't find it in the Owners Manual) but I have oil spitting out - while idling or in motion. never had this problem and would appreciate help in determining what this part is, and why the oil is spitting out (I believe it is oil). Oil/fluid is spitting out horizontally, from right to left, from the inside of the threaded cylinder, left side of picture, below the black wires.


Mark

 

[strum456]

The part shown in your picture is the hydraulic pump. The left part of the pump where you say the oil is coming from is where your tachometer cable is supposed to go. Now for the hard part...why is oil "spitting" out of there? I have never had this problem, but I would guess that you must have a bad seal. Maybe if you put the cable on there like it is supposed to be it wouldn't leak so bad. However, you will probably be looking at a pump rebuild from the sounds of things.

 

[papahags]

Thanks for the help and quick response. This gives me a start (I have never worked on any related to hydraulics )

 

[papahags]

I drained the oil, hydraulics (and transmission, etc. they all need a change) and pulled the pump which was easy. The O-ring-like seals to the hydraulic system look good but I need another gasket (I will probably order/replace all of them). When I look down the threaded pipe/tach hookup I can see a flat screw driver like sleeve. I assume that is not pressure tight and oil from the crank case flows in there, which has recently started to spit out the threaded tach attachment end. Questions:
- Is that where a the tach attachment is hooked to, to sense revolutions (I assume so)?
- Should this be sealed from oil entering it? Should there be oil in there whether I have it open, caped off, or put on a tach attachment?

Would appreciate any help.

Mark
Bovey, MN

 

[Soundguy]

that gear you see is driven by the camshaft.. there should be a gasket where the pump bolts to the housing. engine oil can get where that gear is.gasket is number 46

are you seeing engine oil i assume? if you were seeing hyd oil.. I'd also guess you'd be 'making' engine oil' and loosing hyd oil.

here's a parts list of that pump.. and I'll attach a diagram.

look at round gasket #33 see if you have one as well.....


840 4 CYL AG TRACTOR / 10A03 HYDRAULIC PUMP, PISTON TYPE, 53/
840 4 CYL AG TRACTOR / 10A03 HYDRAULIC PUMP, PISTON TYPE, 53/
Key Qty Part Number Part Name Description
1 NCA600F HYDRAULIC MOTOR Pump Assy., Hydraulic, Includes: Cover plus Ref. 2 thru 35
1 312059 COVER Cover, Hydraulic Pump, Replaces P/N NCA893A, Includes: Cover & Ref. 2
2 6 88042 PIN Pin, 3/16" x 3/4", Coiled
3 2 80781 PLUG Plug, Pipe, Sq Hd, 3/8"-18
4 6 354869S36DS BOLT Bolt, 3/8"-16 x 2"
5 6 NCA646B SPRING Spring, Outlet Valve
6 12 354872S BALL Ball, Inlet, Outlet Valve, 11/32" Dia.
7 1 C0NN869A GASKET Gasket, Cover, Inner
8 1 310205 PLATE Plate Assy., Cover Valve, Includes: Ref. 9
9 6 359047S PIN Pin, Inlet Valve Stop, 3/16" Dia. x 11/32"
10 6 NCA647B SPRING Spring, Inlet Valve
11 6 C0NN885A VALVE SEAT Seat, Inlet Valve
12 1 F2NN867AA GASKET Gasket, Cover, Outer, NAA
12 1 D6NN867A GASKET Gasket, Cover, Outer, Except NAA
13 6 313063 SPRING Spring, Piston, NAA
13 6 NCA861B SPRING Spring, Piston, Except NAA
14 1 PL PROCURE LOCALLY Bolt, HH, 1/4"-20 x 1/2", W/NCA893A
14 1 371776S SCREW Screw, Round Hd., 1/4"-20 x 1.12, W/312059
15 6 NAA615C PISTON Piston, Pump, NAA, No Longer Serviced
15 6 NCA615C PISTON Piston, Pump, Except NAA
16 1 NLS No Longer Serviced Body Assy., Pump, [311142], No Longer Serviced
16 1 B9NN882B BODY Body Assy., Pump, Except NAA, No Longer Serviced
17 2 80781 PLUG Plug, Pipe, Sq Hd, 3/8"-18
18 1 913107 O-RING O-Ring, 3.125" ID x .139" Thk, Housing to Pump Body
19 1 NCA859A PLATE Plate, Shaft Wobble
20 1 C0NN858A ROLLER Roller Assy., Wobble Plate Thrust, Replaced By C0NN858A Which Has a Larger O.D. Than Original Bearing. Rollers Extend Slightly Beyond The Race.
21 1 NCA966D SHAFT Shaft, Pump, W/NCA600E & NAA600C
21 1 NCA966E SHAFT Shaft, Pump, W/NAA600D & NCA600F
21 AR EC0N966AA SHAFT Shaft, Pump, W/NAA600D & NCA600F, Piston Type
22 1 NCA970A BEARING ASSY Bearing Assy., Shaft, Outer, W/NAA600C & NCA600E
22 1 36726 BEARING CONE Cone & Roller Assy., W/NAA600D & NCA600F, Replaces P/N 8A1201C
23 1 36723 BEARING CUP Cup, Bearing, Outer, W/NAA600D & NCA600F, Replaces P/N 8A1202B
24 1 C5NN851A SEAL Seal, Shaft, Replaces P/N NCA851A
25 1 36433 NEEDLE BEARING Bearing Assy., Gear Housing, W/NAA600D & NCA600F
26 1 NLS No Longer Serviced Housing, Pump Gear, W/NAA600C & NCA600E, [NCA905B], No Longer Serviced
26 1 NCA905C HOUSING Housing, Pump Gear, W/NAA600D & NCA600F
27 1 C3NN908A GEAR Gear, Pump, Replaces P/N C0NN908A
28 AR PL PROCURE LOCALLY Washer, Flat, 1/4"
29 1 PL PROCURE LOCALLY Washer, Lock, 1/4"
30 1 EAF951A BOLT Bolt, Gear to Shaft
31 1 EAF17375D ADAPTER Adapter Set, Proofmeter Drive, Includes: Adaptor & Ref. 32
32 1 100-1143 SNAP RING Ring, Snap, #43, Ext, Proofmeter Drive
33 1 NAA17382A GASKET Gasket, Proofmeter Drive Bush
34 1 EAF17381A BUSHING Bushing, Proofmeter Drive Shaft, No Longer Serviced
35 4 358624S8 SPARE PART Bolt, 3/8"-16 x 1.38, Housing to Body, No Longer Serviced
2 353374S36 BOLT Bolt, 3/8"-16 x 2.38
36 1 C0NNB998A SEAL O-Ring, Manifold to Pressure Tube
37 4 88388S8 STUD Stud, Screw, 7/16"-14-20 x 1.43, No Longer Serviced
37 3 NSS NOT SERVICED SEPARATELY Stud, 7/16"-14-20 x 1.68, {88408S}
AR PL PROCURE LOCALLY Nut, Hex, 7/16"-20
AR PL PROCURE LOCALLY Washer, Flat, 7/16"
38 1 C0NNB997A SEAL PROTECTION O-Ring, Manifold to Piston Pump
39 1 NCA933J INLET MANIFOLD Manifold, Intake, Used on & BSN 14257, No Longer Serviced
39 1 310878 INLET MANIFOLD Manifold, Intake, Used on & ASN 14256
40 1 86629540 O-RING O-RING, -214, 70 Duro, .984" ID x .139" Thk, Manifold to Piston Pump
41 1 134372 O-RING O-Ring, 1.109" ID x .139" Thk, Manifold to Piston Pump
42 3 354377S8B SPARE PART Bolt, HH, 7/16"-14 x 1-1/4", No Longer Serviced
42 3 PL PROCURE LOCALLY Bolt, HH, 7/16"-14 x 1-1/8"
43 1 NAA876A HYD. TUBE Tube Assy., Hydraulic
44 1 86553262 O-RING O-Ring, .859" ID x .139" Thk, Intake to Center Housing
45 2 14457281 O-RING O-Ring, -114, Cl 7, .612" ID x .103" Thk, Pressure to Center Housing
46 1 EAF911B GASKET Gasket, Gear Housing to Engine
47 1 290421 HUB Hub Assy., Hydraulic Pump Drive Industrial Only, Replaces P/N 114125
48 4 86509732 BLOCK Block, Pump Drive Hub Bushing Industrial Only, Replaces P/N 194343
49 1 194342 BUSHING Bushing, Pump Drive Industrial Only
1 359264S8 BOLT Bolt, Hex, 7/16"-14 x 1.38, Industrial Only
1 NLS No Longer Serviced Plug, Rear, 7/8"-18 {352998S}
AR FPN910B REPAIR KIT Kit, Repair, Hydraulic Pump Includes parts listed below
1 C0NNB997A SEAL PROTECTION O-Ring
1 C0NNB998A SEAL O-Ring
1 F2NN867AA GASKET Gasket, NAA
1 D6NN867A GASKET Gasket, Except NAA
1 C0NN869A GASKET Gasket
1 913107 O-RING O-Ring, 3.125" ID x .139" Thk
1 EAF911B GASKET Gasket
1 NAA17382A GASKET Gasket
1 86553262 O-RING O-Ring, .859" ID x .139" Thk
4 14457281 O-RING O-Ring, -114, Cl 7, .612" ID x .103" Thk
AR CCPN600A REPAIR KIT Kit, Repair, Piston Type Pump, Except NAA, Includes parts listed below
6 NCA646B SPRING Spring
6 NCA647B SPRING Spring
1 C5NN851A SEAL Seal Assy.
6 NCA861B SPRING Spring
1 D6NN867A GASKET Gasket
6 C0NN885A VALVE SEAT Seat
1 C0NN869A GASKET Gasket
1 C0NNB998A SEAL Seal
1 C0NNB997A SEAL PROTECTION Seal
1 310205 PLATE Plate Assy.
1 913107 O-RING O-Ring, 3.125" ID x .139" Thk
12 354872S BALL Ball, 11/32" Dia.
AR CCPN600B REPAIR KIT Kit, Repair, Piston Type Pump, NAA Only Includes parts listed below
6 NCA646B SPRING Spring
6 NCA647B SPRING Spring
1 C5NN851A SEAL Seal Assy.
6 313063 SPRING Spring
1 D6NN867A GASKET Gasket, Replaces P/N NAA-867-A
6 C0NN885A VALVE SEAT Seat
1 C0NN869A GASKET Gasket
1 C0NNB998A SEAL Seal
1 C0NNB997A SEAL PROTECTION Seal
1 310205 PLATE Plate Assy.
1 913107 O-RING O-Ring, 3.125" ID x .139" Thk
12 354872S BALL Ball, 11/32" Dia.

 

[papahags]

Thanks a million. When I drained both the oil and hyd fluid, the Hyd fluid looked pretty dark, almost the same dark color as the engine oil, similar in smell and feel also. So I am also concerned that I am mixing the two.

I found someone (recommended) nearby who does tractor repair and I will be delivering the pump this morning to get his evaluation/repair/rebuild. More to come.

Mark

 

[Soundguy]

are you making engine oil and loosing hyd oil.. or the other way around?

 

[jinman]

Thanks a million. When I drained both the oil and hyd fluid, the Hyd fluid looked pretty dark, almost the same dark color as the engine oil, similar in smell and feel also. So I am also concerned that I am mixing the two.

I found someone (recommended) nearby who does tractor repair and I will be delivering the pump this morning to get his evaluation/repair/rebuild. More to come.

Mark

Mark, I'm concerned that you may be fixing the symptoms of a bigger problem. If you have engine oil being ejected out the front proof meter drive on the hydraulic pump, it may be an indication that you are getting severe blowby of your piston rings. Does your tractor smoke? does the crankcase vent puff smoke as the engine runs/idles? The location where you said oil is coming out is likely not hydraulic system oil, but rather oil from the engine's crankcase. While you have the hydraulic pump off, I'd do a quick compression check on the cylinders too. You should see probably at least 165 to 175 psi cranking with the starter motor. The spec is 205 psi at 1000 rpm. The important thing is to look for a cylinder that's a lot different in compression than the other cylinders.

 

[Soundguy]

and to further extend that line of thouhgt.. is your crank vent open or caked full ( where you add oil ).. and is the vc vent open?

 

[papahags]

It might smoke a little when I first start it, but it never smokes under any situation after the first 3 seconds. The oil level has been fine, even when I was leaking a little oil - but I will look into all of this, and run it by the repair shop - and thanks a million! When I brought the hydraulic pump into the repair shop and we were looking at the sleeve for the tach attachment, right away he said "it's broken" and sure as heck, it was laying at an angle in there. He unscrewed the connector and the sleeve piece came right out. He will be getting back to me after he can take a look at it. Again - TXs!

Mark