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  1. #141
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    see post 140, the very last thing in post. for the "sideways snake train tractor". err double S double T = SSTT

    or rather the next different shape things have went to.

    -boggen-new-tractor-idea124-png

    *yawns* way past bed time. had the thoughts a flowing for the SSTT and had to keep on going with it. *waves*
    Ryan

  2. #142
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    post 140 to this post = SSTT (sideways snake train tractor)
    -boggen-new-tractor-idea125-png

    it really just hit me. "fail safe" setup between linkages between each section. and dealing with transport tires. and the fail safe being allowing the SSTT (sideways snake train tractor) to turn into a grain wagon or running gear type of setup.

    all the above talk in last diagram. of extending the linkages in/out to deal with transport mode. but perhaps combining transport wheels and the linkages into a single combination unit. was hoping to place larger AG / R1 tires out near the ends but...hhmmsss...
    Ryan

  3. #143
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    *rubs chin* getting nearer to a goal, of actually looking at companies, and taking something to them to see what could happen. though few more goals still need to be meet. *looks pumped* YA!

    ==================
    before i forget....

    if there is a "cab" i might be able to "tuck" it in at one of the ends. there really would not be any "need" to actually run the main support members through the cab due to cab would be at the end. all that really would matter, is attaching and folding an implement up on each side. that alone would really open things up in possibilities for designing a cab and how to mount it / attach it to the SSTT. though i would imagine a Fixed cab vs a cab that is an actual vehicle. the fix cab would allow everything to be compacted much more tightly. and take up less space / less weight etc...

    ==================
    been thinking about all the cylinders... and thinking about a better valve setup. that might allow 3000 PSI on both sides of a double acting cylinder. vs just applying 3000PSI or less to just one side of the cylinder. i would imagine all the valves would be closed center type of valves. perhaps using the "main pressure hyd pressure line" to move the cylinder. and then the other side of cylinder go to atmosphere or low pressure main hyd pipe. then once the cylinder has moved and is positioned, let pressure into the "low pressure" side of the cylinder in. and then return valve to back to center.

    i think my mind playing tricks on me, and getting compressed air all mixed up with hyd oil... but i don't know. perhaps fail safe... due to all the hyd lines. and possibility of just a single hyd hose cracking / splitting, etc... and air getting into the entire machine and into everything. would something like above. add a little better stability. so hyd cylinders are not just bouncing all around ((contracting / extending)) like they were made to spring back and forth.

    i doubt i really want a tire jumping up and down in a field, causing compaction. even if it might be considered a vibration. from the cylinders with just a very tiny bit of air mixed into the hyd oil...

    ==================
    "air bleed pipe" or function. built into the "lower pressure main hyd pipe" is there away, to mechanically remove air from hyd oil? perhaps get a 5 gallon multi bucket, and just spin the living heck out of it. to a point were air begins to separate from the hyd oil.

    i am figuring there is going to be maintenance, and then there is just going to be regular use of machine that will introduce air into the hyd oil. example hooking / unhooking of implements, hooking/unhooking of different sections.

    ===================
    i am kinda edgy on hyd accumulators. more so ones that use compressed gas,or a spring. due to the accumulator in themselves could cause "springy-ness" in hyd cylinders. when the valves get opened up. i guess it would not really matter. if there was some sort of physical mechanical measuring device used. that did not rely on measuring amount of hyd oil going into a cylinder.

    =====================
    thinking of actual measurement and being able to put a sensor on things, so a computer can figure things out... as in how far a cylinder has extended or not. it would almost have to be a a bar with teeth on it. and then one end would hook to the "rod end" of a cylinder. and this toothed bar would just move back and forth. with a "gear" that rotated a sensor that could be placed into a "housing" of some sorts. to keep all the dust, dirt, rain, bugs, etc... from interfering with things.

    the smaller the teeth or rather more teeth per length, i am kinda edge about to a certain point. way to many things to get jammed up. or could cause teeth to break off. if went with larger size teeth and fewer per length. and matched a gear to those teeth. i would imagine both bar and gear would hold up longer. and the how do i want to say it, wear and tear on both gear and toothed bar would become perhaps less. errr the tolerances would not get higher, due to wear and tear would be reduced over longer usage and time.

    if the actual electrical sensor what ever it may be, is in an enclosed housing, with some sort of bearing or like separating the gear from the sensor. greasing the track and gear would be possible without ill effects to the sensor.

    ======================
    perhaps a cable bolted down to the "rod end" of the cylinder. and other end of cable wrapped around a pulley or like. naaa... cable would get all jammed up. and be fitting the stupid thing every time cable had to wrap back around itself as it wound back up, or came back off the spool.

    perhaps cable attached to a spring? or perhaps block and pulley setup. and then place a sensor on the last pulley between cable being tied off to ROD end, and cable feeding a block and pulley that has a spring or 2.

    =====================
    hhmmsss.... what about a chain, like a chain saw chain without the cutting edges or bicycle chain. bolt one end to "rod end of cylinder" and the wrap chain around a sproket that is attached to the cylinder. and then place good size spring. to hold the chain tight. and put sensor on the sprocket.

    thinking about, a chain and sprocket and spring all sound good for "flexibility" of placement of things. but as soon as that chain broke or a pin or bolt got loose. you would be SOL, nothing would be left, not to mention trying to find a position to use a cheater bar or long screw driver or like. to pull the spring to re-attach a chain.

    with a toothed bar and gear setup. there would be issues of things "binding up" but even if bar did get bent. as long as the bar and gear still meshed up and still allowed to move freely. i would think it would out last any sort of chain / sprocket / spring setup. and put a little extra code for computer. to figure out min/max distances of cylinder movement via sensors on pressure relief valves for a given cylinder. i would assume there would be some sort of "diagnostic" setup anyhow. that would calibrate things.

    ======================
    pressure sensors, built into a cylinder or rather valve? or put in between valve and cylinder? i really do not want one tire being placed down in the field and it taking all the weight for half the machine. i would want all the wheels to dynamical raise / lower (aka fold in/out) to adjust amount of weight each tire takes. to reduce compaction. and/or do i move sensor to the rim of the wheel and take pressure readings of the air inside of the tire / tube / rim itself.

    i am not sure if that would even be beneficial or come out to anything. by reading air tire pressure, due to tires "flex" to some degrees both across the face and the side walls. can a sensor even be made to "sense" air pressure that is down around 10PSI. and barely even fluctuates. it is not like it is "racing" were tires heat up and air inside the tires heat up and expand as well. and not dealing with a huge size off road dump truck like in mining operations. but hhmmsss...

    ======================
    TIRES, is it possible to get away from "longer cylinders" by simply dropping them down to the ground. and just letting the tire move itself from under the machine to a unfolded out position? and then using some sort of pin that is electronic. to locks some tracks or pipe together to keep them from sliding? naaa that be old outdated doings. gotta have the latest craze! though could it allow for less weight. and better structural support? na... folding things backup would be a pain in rump. and then trying to get through wet soggy mushy mud. a cylinder would have to be there. if not to fold / unfold but to push and pull things around. could see a tire getting swallowed up by mud. and tire just waving bye bye for dead as rest of machine went on down the field. if there were cylinders involved more likely wheel might be able to be pulled up and keep the machine going.

    ======================
    swapping over to implements and how they connect....

    counter balanced left and right side implements. to lower one side, the other side raises up and vice verse. to place them in transport position. they balance themselves out almost. and then something locks the teeter totter frame from swinging.

    ================
    why not... lets just let the entire machine just roll right over on its back. were the transport wheels are. *coughs* boy... i doubt that would go over well. with the first SSTT (sideways snake train tractor) rolls down a hill across a road through some houses and continues to roll till it finally comes to a stop in some gulley or creek or river... and taking everything within a 100 feet plus path of it.

    ==============
    EDIT: last moment thoughts... if the main structural frame. = a bunch of pipes all formed into a frame. would it be beneficial. to have a hyd oil for cylinders, and then another hyd line with a different type of oil in it. for hyd wheel motors. or perhaps going with electrical wheel motors. though i am skiddish about trying to place high voltage current through the linkages / couplers that would go between sections. almost seems like asking for accidents.

    ===============
    i guess it be time to end this post. and see about getting something going on a grid layout and see if everything could fit in a 8 feet by 20, or 40, or 60 feet long lengths.
    Ryan

  4. #144
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    post 140 to this one = current doings (( SSTT )) = sideways snake train tractor

    an attempt to combine 4 foot diameter AG / R1 tires with implement linkages. to reduce amount of support frames needed. and to reduce length (referring 40 to 60 feet length and not 8 feet width)

    -boggen-new-tractor-idea127-png

    hhmmsss... thinking about tractors... were there really is no "support frame" but rather transmission, PTO, final drive and everything is just one large massive amount of metal.

    would need to see if it would be possible to place linkages for implements on both sides, and see if the linkages could "fold" up and out of the way. allowing wheels to fold out in either direction. without linkages digging into the dirt.

    just thinking it would be awesome to be able to fold most of the tires all towards the implement side that is down in the ground. and only have a tire or 2 out in front. to keep things from falling flat down on there face. then if hitting a ugly spot in the field, being able to go to a stop, and fold a couple tires from implelement side to the front side.

    but.... if above was case it might be better just to place implement linkages on there own support frame vs combining linkages for implements and tires on same support frame... that way all wheels would become independent and could be folded to either side. and if implements were on both sides, they could slide out as needed without interfeering with the wheels.
    Ryan

  5. #145
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    -boggen-new-tractor-idea128-png
    4 foot width. if cab was sat smack dab in the middle so implements could fold up on both sides when in transport mode. and 4foot is not including and sort of support structure. it would be like crawling into a skid steer. zero room to place any sort of screens, control/switch panels.

    trying to keep 8 feet width to deal with road width. is pushing things as is. with some implements counting support frame to how far implement extends below frame.... 2 feet is now 4 feet perhaps more.... though... if implements were not placed on both sides of the SSTT at same time going down the road... that might work.

    but still a cab... and being cramped up in it. for 16 hours straight in a given day.....

    i guess a small cab could work. just to drive SSTT on the road, and just having someone stationed on the SSTT. and leave all the monitoring, controls, etc... on a separate vehicle.

    or simply go with a wider version of the cab. were implements do not fold up against the cab.
    Ryan

  6. #146
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    getting the sub frame for implements figured out...

    -boggen-new-tractor-idea129-png

    getting the sub frame for the transport wheels figured out...

    -boggen-new-tractor-idea130-png

    i kinda at a stale mate for the implements. to point were 3D model would need to be drawn. and everything figured out for sizing the sub frame.

    the transport wheels. are getting there, but need to add some extra stuff to the wheels. to get them motorized and to control turning of the wheels. going to assume the sub frame for transport wheels is not going to be a simple 6" square tube. but get wider like in 6" by 12" or something like that. to deal with motorizing the wheels and turning the wheels.
    Ryan

  7. #147
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    from post 140 to this post = SSTT (sideways snake train tractor)

    -boggen-new-tractor-idea131-png

    at a stale mate on transport wheels. need to narrow down actual tire dimensions (widths) along with hyd motor or electrical motor physical dimensions. along with at what max speed / horse power would be needed to figure things out..

    until above if figured out i am just spinning my wheels. and trying to fit stuff that i really do not know would work or not. though rough guessing i would imagine everything should be able to fit and work. it would just down to fine tuning all the measurements. till a workable setup happened.

    =====
    moving onto the larger 4 foot diameter AG / R1 tires. to try and figure out a way/s that might work for them.
    Ryan

  8. #148
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    no real doing for the larger AG / R1 4' diameter tires. no need to rotate them, it is just putting them down and moving them side to side... and good portion will most likely come from a 3D model. in narrowing things down.

    -boggen-new-tractor-idea132-png
    Ryan

  9. #149
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    on a quick different note. i really have not dug into actual laws beyond googling. but i been seeing a good amount of "no overall length" when it comes to include the measurement for all the trailers and the semi/truck.

    as in there is no defined length for how long the semi/truck can be.

    print screen/paste of... http://www.sdtruckinfo.com/docs/MCHandbook_chap4.pdf (page 2)
    -boggen-new-tractor-idea133-png

    i would imagine there are limitations if i goto see about vehicle size itself. like a custom made vehicle. but thinking about limousines, pulling a 60 foot or so trailer behind it... granted it may not be no limousine. but rather a 60 foot SSTT section. and the trailer being another 60 foot SSTT section. but *shrugs*

    also the lag time, it seems "laws / regulations / etc.." take in order to catch up with technology... some breathing room there i would like to think.

    also it seems there are a lot of "farmer" specific laws. that let farmers or rancher get by with some extra length. or some such, when MPH are reduced down to say 25MPH.
    Ryan

  10. #150
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    looking back at post 145. the 6" x 6" inch grid. i am showing 6 (4' diameter AG / R1) tires. along with some transport wheels and linkages between sections.

    without really looking really into depth.... but what about reducing those 6 tires. into a single wide track or 2 tracks. other words, instead of having a tractor, that has 3 wheels per side on back, and 3 wheels per side on rear for a total of 12 tires. and then looking at other machines that have tracks. were does the ground pressure come out at? which one has less ground pressure?

    also with the SSTT type of setup. the tracks would not really see any sort of "hard roads" (pavement) due to tracks would be raised up off the ground, by the transport tires. during transporting on the road. this reducing track wear by a good amount. unlike current age tracked tractors. were ya kinda stuck just driving the tracked tractor every were with the given tracks that are on the tractor. there really is no "transport wheels" that i ever remember seeing. beyond putting the tracked tractor on a semi flat bed trailer. and putting "over sized" markers on semi truck and trailer and hauling the tracked tractor over paved roads. and for farmers working short distances loading / unloading seems like a wasteful time i would imagine. vs paying for upkeep of the tracks.

    one thing that worries me though, is tracks would end up weighing more. than what multi AG/R1 tires would be. though that is just taking word of what i have read without doing the math. i guess it would not really matter, beyond the main back bone frame for the SSTT (sideways snake train tractor) would have to be beefed up some.

    that extra room saved with going with tracks. i would like to think, really would open things up. to allow for things to happen.

    tracks not being round... but rather a triangle shape or flat rectangle. could give some better clearance for folding implements back onto the SSTT for transport.

    cost off set wise multi AG / R1 tires vs tracks... and taking into account life time / maintenance / problems. hmmmsss.

    -boggen-new-tractor-idea134-png
    Last edited by boggen; 09-23-2012 at 10:05 PM.
    Ryan

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