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  1. #181
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    Reading this long discussion on how to in the mind get farm equipment to work in real situations.
    Was reminded of a inventor named Laturno probally mis-spelled Built elec. motors in the wheels and small generator on frame of what ever the machine was to do.
    A loader commonlly called the bouncing betty had 5 buttons on dash for movement forward, left, right ,rearward. the fuel tanks were in the frame .
    All before the modern electronic controllers could work in any weather conditions and didn't need a table smooth surface to get around.
    Study history of international tractors company. every time the engineers built a piece of farm equipment that the farmers liked the bean counters turned it down as to costly.
    With all the electronics . hydrolic motors hoses and parafanalla in your design should something like a operator that has no idea what he is doing connect the wrong hose to piece of equipment. insted of folding turning or doing as designed it curls all into a mass of junk. Who is to repair all of this when a part is bent due to trying to run into a power pole in field .or miss alignment in corn crop and it takes out the corn row instead of doing what was thought it is doing.
    Again reading all most all of this forum just what are you trying to build.
    Farmers buy equipment to get the job done if it doesn't it is sidelined for something that does.
    Example is dairy men buying these 1/4 millon dollor automatic milkers and the electronics get hit by lightening.
    Do you ask the cow to be patient while waiting for the repairman to arrive. Or harvesting the rice crop and the weather has turned the field into a 4 inch deep pond . have to use a dozer to drag the combine across the field. fill the trailers to take to the storage area and the tractor (driver trying to get his head phones adjusted) runs the tractor into drainage ditch. turning it over.
    Can all the planning over come just the changing weather conditions.

    Sometimes I cannot sleep also.
    ken
    I think it's spelled LeTourneau. He was an equipment genius.

    R. G. LeTourneau - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  2. #182
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    Reading this long discussion on how to in the mind get farm equipment to work in real situations.
    Was reminded of a inventor named Laturno probally mis-spelled Built elec. motors in the wheels and small generator on frame of what ever the machine was to do.
    A loader commonlly called the bouncing betty had 5 buttons on dash for movement forward, left, right ,rearward. the fuel tanks were in the frame .
    All before the modern electronic controllers could work in any weather conditions and didn't need a table smooth surface to get around.
    Study history of international tractors company. every time the engineers built a piece of farm equipment that the farmers liked the bean counters turned it down as to costly.
    With all the electronics . hydrolic motors hoses and parafanalla in your design should something like a operator that has no idea what he is doing connect the wrong hose to piece of equipment. insted of folding turning or doing as designed it curls all into a mass of junk. Who is to repair all of this when a part is bent due to trying to run into a power pole in field .or miss alignment in corn crop and it takes out the corn row instead of doing what was thought it is doing.
    Again reading all most all of this forum just what are you trying to build.
    Farmers buy equipment to get the job done if it doesn't it is sidelined for something that does.
    Example is dairy men buying these 1/4 millon dollor automatic milkers and the electronics get hit by lightening.
    Do you ask the cow to be patient while waiting for the repairman to arrive. Or harvesting the rice crop and the weather has turned the field into a 4 inch deep pond . have to use a dozer to drag the combine across the field. fill the trailers to take to the storage area and the tractor (driver trying to get his head phones adjusted) runs the tractor into drainage ditch. turning it over.
    Can all the planning over come just the changing weather conditions.

    Sometimes I cannot sleep also.
    ken
    Good Solid post Ken.

    though at moment. i honestly can not give you any sort of "direct" answer, due to there is non at the moment. and reason why, last couple days, been trying to nail down, a software package. for example, autodesk inventor to programming language. to take things to the next step. i can see it all in my own mind working, both large and overview doing of things, and then individual components. but it is the piecing things together to work, and then going back every little thing a few to many times. to double check things.

    to note it one more time, well said ken, but every time i begin to think about different portions of your post, my mind begins running, of this and that and some way to resolve issues. but need to get my rear back to autodesk tutorials / videos. so i can show it vs just blabing about it. gotta see it through to the end.

    and thanks for info, to do more research into the history!
    Ryan

  3. #183
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    Quote Originally Posted by PapaPerk View Post
    I think it's spelled LeTourneau. He was an equipment genius.

    R. G. LeTourneau - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    thanks for link, i went through it. hoping to see a few more things, will try later on, to search for museums, and see if other diagrams/pictures come back.
    Ryan

  4. #184
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    Quote Originally Posted by boggen View Post
    thanks for link, i went through it. hoping to see a few more things, will try later on, to search for museums, and see if other diagrams/pictures come back.
    Not sure if you've been to this site or not. There's some really interesting machines here.

    Special Offroad Vehicles - UNUSUAL OFF-ROAD LOCOMOTION

  5. #185
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    "Artisan" just caught his "dump trailer angle dangle" thread
    http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/b...le-dangle.html

    the picture on post 16. and some comments of multi tool for the top. is what caught my eye. for the SSTT (sideways snake train tractor) for transport wheels. little bit shortening here, little bit of moving of cylinders / hinges. toss a coulple hyd motors into the mix. and voom voom voom.
    Ryan

  6. #186
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    Quote Originally Posted by PapaPerk View Post
    Not sure if you've been to this site or not. There's some really interesting machines here.

    Special Offroad Vehicles - UNUSUAL OFF-ROAD LOCOMOTION
    yep, few pages back, i grabbed some pictures and posted them in the thread, from that site.
    Ryan

  7. #187
    Ken
    Ken is offline
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    Quote Originally Posted by boggen View Post
    Good Solid post Ken.

    though at moment. i honestly can not give you any sort of "direct" answer, due to there is non at the moment. and reason why, last couple days, been trying to nail down, a software package. for example, autodesk inventor to programming language. to take things to the next step. i can see it all in my own mind working, both large and overview doing of things, and then individual components. but it is the piecing things together to work, and then going back every little thing a few to many times. to double check things.

    to note it one more time, well said ken, but every time i begin to think about different portions of your post, my mind begins running, of this and that and some way to resolve issues. but need to get my rear back to autodesk tutorials / videos. so i can show it vs just blabing about it. gotta see it through to the end.

    and thanks for info, to do more research into the history!

    Re-reading my posting I wasn't being critical of the design . just could not figure out how it was to be used.
    Remember the new designed tractors that had the 12 wheels and in pulling the farm equipment came to a hard soil of clay and strips the lugs off the tires. Now this will put a wrinkle in the tail.
    Or combine that is wider than the planter so row keeps shifting.

    Farmer would need to borrow money from a friendly bank wanting a total lein on the property if goes into a default from weather. or Goverment planning. they get it all.
    All the different computer systems needed and where will the spare parts be found or some one with knowledge of repairing. Even a today's bailer will stop working when a power cable shifts or comes loose. Only saying error on the control panel.
    I'm not against the idea of building newer and better equipment. just keep it simple and easy to locate the problems.
    ken

  8. #188
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    autodesk tutorial site, is acting funky at moment, pictures not loading / page not loading. and need to finish up tutorials before charging into the next video, not having a clue what he is talking about.

    critical? huh? *shrugs* never phased me. *laughs* did not even think about it, till ya said something. internet at its finest, of being impersonal, and not being able to read body language of person ya talking with.

    ya, i understand about keeping things simple. biggest part of this thread, is just getting a understanding of it all, myself, let alone anyone else.

    ===============

    electronics and lighting strikes :/ ya that is a big one. to many times machines get left out in a field and they are the tallest things around, and then of all things get placed right up near a field fence :/ *big frown* old farmer that worked this farm for some time, i know he has been nailed by lighting a few times. just driving down the field up near the fence line. and lighting hitting the fence clear down the line and out of site. and sending a charge down the fence line and attacking the tractor per say.

    i am not overly to worried about lighting on each 60 feet section. but rather when 2 more 60 feet sections are combined into a single working machine. and lighting hitting one end. and sending electricity clear through everything. to the very far end at 120 feet away. that worries me. i guess i should say each section as well 60 feet is a long distance, for machine to get into different hot spots. that could cause a couple lighting strikes... (guessing)

    i am still having a hard time with running electrical motors directly in the rims of the tires or the like. just do not like that many AMP's and chance of a potential vary dangerous situation happening. more so, someone bozo thinking they can fix something, without shutting things down and properly grounding things out before working on something...

    good portion of above, is more likely ya see me reference to hydraulic hydrostatic transmission, or hydraulic motors.

    ================

    complexity, and keeping it simple, ya it been driving me crazy, with the implement linkages, to linkages to deal with wheels to tracks. along with valving and sensors. KISS (keep it simply stupid). there going to be a lot of battle of this and that. in simplifying things to complexity. i am sure there going to be a few "wellll...." judgement calls, of adding a couple bucks more to total cost, for some sort of harness connecter for wiring harness, or a quick disconnect for hydraulic oil, or perhaps another bracket, that you can actually get a socket wrench / breaker bar on. and then just simply being able to maneuver around the machine to work on it, engine, to valves, to grease zerks, to fueling it up, and checking the fluid levels. to other. along with points were you can actually place a jack under something, to lift things up, to work on something. you say simple. but most machines get complex fairly quick. in order to make the machines simple... i am still trying to figure out, how that works out
    Ryan

  9. #189
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    Default

    Using the electric motor drives is probably the simplest solution. I believe power to wheels and efficiently will be far superior to hydro drives.

    Hybrid vehicles (Prius, etc) use electric drives. Some voltage reaching 600 volts.

    Also modern railroad locomotives use diesel powered generators to power their electric motor drive wheels. Proven technology.

    By using electric drives, the integration of controls is much easier on the entire machine.

  10. #190
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    how are electrical motors going to hold up, when they get completely submerged under water and/r caked with dirt, that is a few inches thick? how is the "heat" generated from the electrical motor, going to hold up in those type of situations?

    you really can not put a fan on the motor, and/or rely on "wind" of just going 30 to 70 MPH through the field to cool the motors.

    any sort of internal fan. that requires any sort of *its on tip of my tongue*.. baffles and air ducts. to keep rain water and like out, and your risking flooding the motor, when ya go through any sort of mud puddle found in fields, and other nasty areas.

    if a heat sink, was placed on a electrical motor, to help reduce heat. you are still at risk of mud build up. and reducing how much can be removed.

    ===========
    hyd motors, the hyd oil itself, can be cooled at a different location than were the hyd motor is. and in that help keep the "temperature" at the hyd motor down.

    ===========
    ya a blanket statement comment, of not wanting to submerge anything into any sort of water, or get mud build up on things. but if that is the case, ya sitting in the shed not doing squat.

    a train, the wheels do not go through mud or snow, well i am sure they do, but once snow gets to a certain point, i would imagine snow plows get added to the front of the trains. to keep all the wheels on the track.

    electrical cars / trucks. i really can not bight into, at least everything that i have seen so far, is made for highways, and streets were there is no mud / water.

    there are some electrical tractors folks have done, and ones i have seen have been tractors that have been modified, were the engine was switched over to the generator, and removing drive shaft between engine and transmission. and placing a electrical motor back on final drive area of the tractor. keeping the motors up and out the way of water and mud.

    =======

    at moment, i just do not see how a electrical motor located at in the wheels / rim. or just offset just outside of the wheel. could hold up.

    and due to how the SSTT (sideways snake train tractor) would move, with both transport wheels, and then with large AG tires and/or tracks. i do not see how it would be possible to use drive shafts, to keep the electrical motors up higher off the ground. so they do not get submerged under water or caked with mud, in the every day life, of a field tractor. and if it was possible, (most likely is) adding the extra drive shafts, (like transfer cases for 4WD / MFWD) would add more complexity and points of failure.

    =================
    then again, i very well could be wrong. i know, i do not know enough about electrical motors, let alone experience. to fairly judge them. would loved to be proven, wrong!

    and i know "i just walked right into it" so lets hear it!
    Ryan

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