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  1. #231
    Elite Member
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    SSTT (Sideways Snake Tain Tractor) and STB (sideways train box) tractor, dirt harvester

    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    playing "hangman" again, but for tracks this time.

    i think it would be easy enough to add a "triangle" track setup...
    but problem is limited to about 4 foot long. just not enough space to squeeze anything longer in between implements located on both sides of the SSTT.

    so i thought about adding some extra wheels / rollers, so the track could be "folded" up and at all times keep the tension placed on the track. so it would not fall out of alignment with sprockets and groves that the track ran on. that idea lasted long enough for me to get frustrated trying to draw something up. and trying to find space that was not there to begin with.

    then thought about 2 tracks approx 3 feet long for total of 6 feet. i am hoping i can find enough room. for this. were i can "flop" each individual track upside down to keep everything inline. when driving in one direction. and then do another flop, to allow tracks to be driven in opposite direction. and keeping the tension pulley/wheel/roller going in correct direction vs driving/powered sprocket/wheel. or at very least. i could state track adjust to ground slope. and allow for weight distribution.

    new tractor idea possibly....-boggen-sstt-implement-linkages-7-a
    Ryan

  2. #232
    Elite Member
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    SSTT (Sideways Snake Tain Tractor) and STB (sideways train box) tractor, dirt harvester

    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    new tractor idea possibly....-boggen-sstt-implement-linkages-8-a

    been chasing my tail for most part of today.

    going to need to go through "pathing" tutorials for setting tracks or chains on sprockets. tried on my own but never did get it figured out quickly enough.

    went for 4 sets of tracks. thinking i might be able to pull it all off. but before tracks even got applied over the wheels. i am looking at "transport wheels" without the tracks on them and no 360 joint.

    ====================
    after a few days, since transport wheels. i am a tad lost on dimensions of what i am limited to. i think i am going to tackle a generic main frame for the entire SSTT. and begin attaching wheels / tracks / implement linkages. and do a little fine tuning on actual dimension of things.
    Ryan

  3. #233
    Elite Member
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    SSTT (Sideways Snake Tain Tractor) and STB (sideways train box) tractor, dirt harvester

    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    weekend and monday never got a chance to work on the SSTT.

    today, ended up re-drawing all the cylinders, and brackets, and a 60 long, 2 wide, 2 tall (main frame) for implement linkages. thought i could squeeze out a few more inches. to allow implements height to get upwards of almost 36 inches. vs 24 inches that i originally was going with.

    but if ya take a look at pictures, trying to place brackets so everything freely moves without ramming into something as implement folds in/out and up/down. is getting a bit nerve racking. of constantly changing dimensions. and re-starting from scratch for brackets so things do not bind up.

    going to hold off from another run of brackets. till i get the transport wheels at min added to the overall assembly to double check min/max height i have to work with for implement linkages.

    new tractor idea possibly....-boggen-sstt-implement-linkages-9-a
    Ryan

  4. #234
    Elite Member
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    SSTT (Sideways Snake Tain Tractor) and STB (sideways train box) tractor, dirt harvester

    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    started to re-draw the transport wheels linkages and frame for them, one more time. and haphazardly drew up some gears, a straight bar, and a hydraulic cylinder. wanting to finish out the frame, decided to hit the 360 joint one more time for were 2 hydraulic oil lines, and 1 compressed air line runs through it.

    360 joint going to take more time than i thought. to shrink everything down even further. and i think it is finally starting to take shape. both in overall width, and height that it takes up.

    new tractor idea possibly....-boggen-sstt-implement-linkages-10-a

    was hoping things would move quicker along, but re-drawing everything over and over again. and more to the point doing a general drawing, and then re-drawing it, for better detail and more exact measurements... and then a redo for even better measurements. i just have not got the grove yet, that i thought i was in. methods keep changing as more and more detail gets put into things.
    Ryan

  5. #235
    Elite Member
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    SSTT (Sideways Snake Tain Tractor) and STB (sideways train box) tractor, dirt harvester

    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    been more of a cram session more than anything today. talking to my cousin. for 2 to 4 hours. that went through some collage classes last year.

    need to get the thoughts down before i forget them....

    counter axle to help keep main shaft and output shaft, in a transmission from splitting the case apart. and help transfer torque by doubling shafts up. but if wanted could remove counter axle shaft.

    teeth type for gears for quieter sound.

    think it just now hit me what he was driving at some what. with a hyd cylinder, and the 360 joint rotation. and a worm gear,, err pinion gear he was showing me for get thing teeth to mesh up. were the worm gear is not actually driven by a electrical motor or hydraulic motor. but rather. the hyd cylinder moving back and forth.

    showed me some info pictures in books/handouts he had, for transmissions. and old style fork plate, sleeves / clutches, to friction disc clutches. all gears in transmissions stay stationary.

    1 - 4 then taking up length and then low,mid,high end second gear set at very end. the low,mid,high gear end hit me pretty good as a possibility.

    for the tooth bar, that turns 360 joint, don't know the bearing type right off hand. but flat bars held in a partial groves. along with extra gear or 2 that just free spins to go up against the tooth side of the bar. to keep the bar from twisting out of place.

    i know i am missing good portion of rest of the talk. still sinking it all in.

    STEERING and BRAKES, when air and/or hyd goes out. what is needed the most steering. cousin nailed me hard on that one.

    =================

    no pictures for this post. (see bottom last picture in last post) been trying to come up with a easy way for the ports for hyd oil and compressed air, for top of 360 joint. and make things actually machinable, to be created easily, and bolted or like together. i think i am down to the last and hopefully final idea. of cutting a grove deeper in a select spot or drilling some holes right next to each other. and then just weld on some threaded pipe ends, with a little bit wider patch. over the grove or drilled holes.

    been trying to stay away from full idea of molded metal parts like injection molded plastic parts. and trying best to stay with parts that can be set into a vise and a drill or a cutting wheel, or use of a lathe can be used to make needed doings. if i can make them by hand, then hopefully a machine would be able to do it without any problems and much better accuracy than i could do by hand.

    and the whole being able to make them by hand. has tossed every idea for those ports to the trash bin.

    ======================
    before i forgot, also need to move some groves from middle section of 360 joint up into the main upper piece. hopefully remove another 1/2" from overall height. maybe more...

    alright, visualizing way to many things in my head, time to get back to autodesk inventor. and get them roughly drawn out.
    Ryan

  6. #236
    Elite Member
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    SSTT (Sideways Snake Tain Tractor) and STB (sideways train box) tractor, dirt harvester

    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    been sending in error reports through the pop up window that shows up after autodesk inventor 2013 crashes. and some of the emails that i got back, noted service pack 1.1 and good portion of day been trying to get the updated service pack, installed, and so far no good. and getting hung up on ASMKERN218I.DLL file.

    more frustrated than anything. given up on service pack 1.1 update for now.... *frowns* and looks like some of the fixes, is what i am running into, as well *bigger frown*

    ========================

    new tractor idea possibly....-boggen-sstt-implement-linkages-11-a

    at movement trying to figure out. how in the world, i am going to handle the "toothed" bar. that is used to rotate the transport wheels 360 degrees. or rather i should state rotate approx 200 degrees in each direction.

    i need to keep tooth bar tight up against the gear, and at same time keep the tooth bar from bending. along with rotating and twisting (keep teeth aligned up and not end up at some odd angle))

    i am not really seeing bearings happening at all to keep tooth bar lined up.

    i thought about just dropping a 1/4" to 1/2" thick wall pipe around the tooth bar. and notching it out. were the gear is. and i may still do that.

    though last brainstorm thoughts, is possibly doing something like a belt and pulley setup. or rather make that. instead of a belt on a pulley, the round toothed bar would ride in 2 to 4 pulleys to keep things ligned up and up against the gear.

    the problem with above ideas, is i almost need some sort of "rail" to keep the tooth bar from "rotating off and away from the gear. i thought about tossing some fins onto the tooth bar. and add some tracks for the fins to ride in. and i may try that.

    i may end up going with a thin flat bar vs round tooth bar. and making clearance for the round hyd cylinder rod. and just letting everything slide in a molded setup.

    =================
    to note it, i had to go with a reduction gearing. with the toothed bar. simply not enough space. and limited to 8 feet width. once i remove, spacing for seals, 0-rings, bracing for a hyd cylinder. plus some extra bracing for tooth bars and a encasement for everything. i end up loosing say foot.

    then tied into a needed diameter of the main slew gear. and really can not make it much smaller than what it already is.

    i would imagine i might be able to pickup a different gear ratio, putting a few more teeth on the tooth bar. to pickup a few more degrees of rotation of wheels. but math behind figuring out type of teeth and how to dimension them is above me. but even then, i do not think those few degrees would give me enough degrees that would be needed.

    =============
    on a different note: so far happy with the hyd oil and compressed air parts that fit through the center of the slew gear. i did not actually do the math for exact dimensions for a given GPM of hyd oil or CFM of air. but there should be enough wiggle room, to change things just enough.

    one thing i am still worried about is the "seals" in the above parts. dealing with 3000 PSI hyd oil. and then dealing with shock loads... i don't know. i may be right back at the drawing board fairly quickly.
    Ryan

  7. #237
    Elite Member
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    SSTT (Sideways Snake Tain Tractor) and STB (sideways train box) tractor, dirt harvester

    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    new tractor idea possibly....-boggen-sstt-implement-linkages-12-a
    Medusa head for toothed rod. ok maybe that would be expensive to actually make. perhaps, going with something like a PTO shaft end, that sticks out the rear of tractors. vs a wave of arcs. hhmmsss that could work.
    Ryan

  8. #238
    Elite Member
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    SSTT (Sideways Snake Tain Tractor) and STB (sideways train box) tractor, dirt harvester

    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    new tractor idea possibly....-boggen-sstt-implement-linkages-13-a

    *rubs chin* my mind is getting a tad foggy, if a planetary gear setup vs reduction gear could work. way to much math for my brain to handle at moment. let alone finding the math. for basic generic calculations.

    for the toothed bar, i don't know yet. looks way to complex still. along with needing to get oil or grease or lubrication in between the bar and the track it goes into.

    part of wanting to see if planetary gear would work. is another attempt to reduce overall height the 360 joint takes up. though looking at things. not sure if it would be needed, i may still go with reduction gears as now, but possibly add a couple ring gears into the mix. na.... will just beef the living daylights out of things if need be.
    Ryan

  9. #239
    Elite Member
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    SSTT (Sideways Snake Tain Tractor) and STB (sideways train box) tractor, dirt harvester

    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    trial and error with more autodesk problems, finally think i got things sorted out. though resulted in a good amount of re-drawing of a good amount of parts. to get past the crashing of autodesk, and BSD (blue screens of death). to many links between different parts in different files i guess. i don't know. running smooth and fast now.

    new tractor idea possibly....-boggen-sstt-implement-linkages-14-a

    rack and pinion, to deal with rotating the wheels for turning purposes. is becoming problem-matic. re-thinking of how what other ways everything can be ran. including arc's to bending the pipe, etc... to get around the raising / lowering cylinders of the transport wheels. to running another gear for a angled across things.

    so far not real happy, and trying to visualize things in my mind, to keep lubrication (oil or grease) in. and still allow connection point of a hyd cylinder
    Ryan

  10. #240
    Elite Member
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    SSTT (Sideways Snake Tain Tractor) and STB (sideways train box) tractor, dirt harvester

    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    YA! finally got into doctor today, and get some injections, to deal with some muscle nerve issues. hopefully my mind will be speeding down the field once again at full throttle. vs trying to figure out what 2 plus 2 equals.

    new tractor idea possibly....-boggen-sstt-implement-linkages-15-a

    back to the transport wheels.... at one time i thought i would be able to make it so there would be 4 wheels (2 lefts, 2 rights) would have there own set of raising lowering cylinders, and own cylinder for 360 joint to rotate it. but space is simply not there, without adding an extra 8 to 12 inches. and if i add the extra space, and transport wheels sink up to the axle other parts would be dragging and digging in as well, and just be one ugly stuck mess trying to get the SSTT (sideways snake train tractor) out of the mud.

    but now it is look like....
    2 front left
    2 from right
    2 rear left
    2 rear right
    total of 8 tires. will have 4 hyd cylinders to raise and lower them to the ground. and then i am not sure if i am going to stick with a single hyd cylinder or go with 2 hyd cylinders to rotate the 360 joint.

    i have room to enlarge the reduction gears. and i might be able to either run a shaft between left side 360 joints and another shaft on right side 360 joints. problem is... keeping everything as low profile as possible.

    WAIT a min....

    that might work better, a hyd cylinder on left side 360 and a hyd cylinder on right side 360 joints. and keep all the ugly shafts from going from left to right side and vice vs....

    hhmmsss THE PROBLEM.... needing adjust wheels for row / crop. doings. GGGRRRR. i guess go back at it and see what i can come with vs, shorting the idea out, vs seeing if it is even possibly by rough set of numbers.

    ========================
    ========================
    =========================
    on a different note, been going over...

    hyd pumps. a good portion of the yesterday, was re-inventing the wheel. and trying generic stuff out in autodesk inventor, ya it may seem pretty pointless, but it was a learning experence, and helped me clarify, what would and would not work. and portion of today, was re-looking back at video's on youtube.

    i am down to axial and radial type of hyd motors.

    the one big issue has been, using up space, as in the replacing the rim of a tire with a hyd motor. looking over on Please wait while we redirect... website. all the hyd motors are foot ball size. give or take a few inches in any direction.

    also the piston sizes or rather cubic inch of displacement and GPM and RPM, and PSI

    the RPM's for transport wheels are a bigger issue compared to field only mode large 4 foot diameter AG/R1 tires, and tracks for in field mode. transport tires need the low RPM's while in field mode, then high RPM's when in transport mode going 25 to 40 MPH down the road. and honestly been looking at 65MPH down the road. why not at this point. no were near a point of being able to narrow things down.

    gearing is an issue.
    ---thought about instead of gearing, put in 2 circles of pistons in a axial hyd pump, the smaller ring, fewer piston circle = higher RPMs or MPH, and then the larger ring with more pistons, = slower speeds and more torque. and then dropping a 1 to 3 speed transmission / gear setup.
    ---for radial hyd motors putting in 2 rows one with larger pistons and another row beside it with smaller pistons. and same as above, smaller pistons = for higher RPMs / MPH, and larger pistons for slower speeds and more torque.

    ----i have thought about setting up 2 rows of pistons of same size for both axial or radial hyd motors, and instead of running all the pistons in parallel all the time which would give a lower RPM and high torque, i thought about running every other one or 2 or 3 in series, and en essence change gears for higher RPM's other words, i would be changing a 4" diameter bore hyd cylinder 3" inches long. to a 1" diameter bore hyd cylinder 24 inches long. ((how ever that math works out, to lazy to open up spread sheet and do the math for this example)) by simply changing the pattern of were hyd flows in/out of each piston.

    ----i have also thought about just beefing up the metal, of everything. so i can just push more GPM of hyd oil through a hyd motor. to get the RPM's that would be wanted. that in itself, i don't know about this idea, due to higher GPM that get pushed through the hyd motor, the more friction loss that is created. and efficiency begins going down, along with more heat that gets produced. more GPM = larger size hyd hoses and pipes. larger hoses = smaller bend radius of hoses before causing problems with the hoses, and there will be enough hoses, that bend radius could be a big problem. and then with heat, = more hyd oil cooling that would be needed and efficiency just keeps going down across the entire SSTT. i could raise hyd pressure from 3000PSI up to say 5000PSI, but for now trying stay with 3000PSI hyd oil pressure. larger diameter hyd hoses cost $$$ more. not talking 1/2" or 3/4" but more likely 1" to 2" in order to keep friction loss down to an acceptable level.

    =================
    actual regular gears like in a transmission. i have been thinking about them. from planetary to spur gears. and different arrangements. and at moment, i keep jumping away from gears. good portion is, because, i do know know / comprehend, the math that is needed to be known. for gears. and to keep gears from stripping teeth and like. but other is, physical space that is there, to place gears. i need room for a hyd motor, brake, gearing, and have room to place in each rim of 2 wheels, and then a short 4 to 8 inch width between the 2 wheels. plus need to route some wires for sensors and hyd oil itself. plus an air line for brakes. possibly an another air line, to supply air pressure to shift between gears. then gear oil or hyd oil, to everything. if hyd oil. do i run another small little hyd pump and pump fluid back and forth between each axle or install or other.... those higher end MPHs are going to be creating some heat in them transport tires, when sstt is in transport mode going down the road.

    that last paragraph in itself is overwhelming me at moment.

    ===========================
    ===========================
    ya and i thought it would be simple, *chuckles with a grin* off to make some plates for hyd motors, to see if i can run all pistons parallel, and/or every other 1,2,3,4,5,6 in series.
    Ryan

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