OP
boggen
Elite Member
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2011
- Messages
- 3,824
- Location
- Trivoli, IL
- Tractor
- SSTT (Sideways Snake Tain Tractor) and STB (sideways train box) tractor, dirt harvester
not much of an update, holidays, have had the best of me so far.
i am moving away from hydraulic motors. and looking more and more at electrical wheel motors.
the last turbine gear setup just does not work, there is need for fluid movement, and the turbine blade/gear just is not doing what i want it. one of them i locked onto idea, and would not let it go. and hoping i might find away to make it work. by the time i get all the valves worked out, i might as well be looking directly at electrical motor. and skip hyd fluid all together. though, i am still not counting hyd motor completely out. or rather i should make that a hybrid hyd / electrical motor out.
the more i try to use a hyd motor inside the rim of a wheel, the more i am wanting to walk away from them. reasons.... i want to turn into a "control freak" MAHAHAH!!! but seriously, i want as much micro management control possible, in controlling torque, and RPMs of a wheel. at both slow and high MPH (miles per hour) and also wanting high initial starting force (dead stop, and getting things moving)
i am wanting micro management, of how fast a tire spins, not in a complete revolution, but each degree (as in 360 degrees). along with how much torque is applied. per each degree of a revolution. the thought is the more control and more so how fast the control can be achieved. the less compaction, and more traction a agriculture tire could achieve. but catch there is, the more teeth of a gear or rather the more magnets and coils/windings/phases there is, the better. and in that, i am willing to sacrifice, complexity, and efficiency of a electrical motor. for better fine tuned control of torque and RPM per more degrees of control.
other words. many of us been there done that. we be going along plowing snow, or out in the lawn on wet grass on a hill or going through a wet spot on a riding lawn mower or tractor. and wheels begin to slip and spin. i am wanting. to be able to measure, torque being applied, and the RPM's of the tire. and let a computer chip. say HEY. this wheel is starting to slip. lets slightly lower RPM's, or this tire has went down into a hole, and needs to speed up some in RPM's over length of the hole, and just a little bit more torque as wheel comes up and out of the hole / dip in the ground.
as an agricultural tire, R1 or like tire, has large "lugs" or deep tread patterns. once the treads fill up with dirt moving through loose soil. and pressure (from weight of vehicle or tractor) is applied to compact as much dirt up into the treads of tire. you end up at a place, of how much (not sure of the word) hhmmss how much the dirt will stick to other dirt near it. before dirt begins to slide, i suppose i should say molecules of the dirt will slide. and in that cause a tire to "slip" or "spin" within the dirt / mud. while every so slightly and most likely not noticeable to naked eye, that slippage = loss of physical traction. In that, i want ability, to pickup and sense that very small slippage, and as fast as possible adjust RPM's and torque of the wheel. to keep slippage down to a min. if high speed motion video was used. i would imagine a agricultural tractor tire, look like it is "stuttering" as it goes through a field that is going through patches of hard compacted dirt, to loose muddy patches. were the wheel is quickly speeding up, and then almost stopping as it senses a wheel slippage, and tire slows down.
the issue is, the stuttering, will more likely end up be a "vibration" vs a a smooth motion. with hyd motors with no gear or with gear, is sensors and then length of time between changing a valve position to accommodate wheel slippage. and if there is just a little bit of air mixed into the hyd oil. response time is further lengthen. and more likely cause more wheel slippage to happen.
if i go with an electrical motor. with more windings, magnets, etc...i reduce amount of moveable parts that would wear down over time vs hyd motor, in that more likely obtaining a longer life of higher efficiency, of dealing with wheel slippage with electrical motors. response time, between sensor, to changing a RPM's and torque, is only limited by computer chip speed, and length/size of wires, electricity must flow through.
the problem going all electric, is response rate will go higher, but there still will be some "stuttering" / "vibration" if i rely directly on a computer chip. to send electricity to windings / coils in the electrical motor. and in that limited to current age technology of computer chips, in how fast they are to compute information. factors that will always be there. is length and size of wires used and amount of volts/amps/watts used. closer i can get computer chip to windings the better for wheel slippage.
====================
side tracking.....
been hitting some generic online websites that go over electrical and magnets and electrical motors. been to many years to remember generic A/C and D/C courses from collage. so far not real happy of what i have came across yet. so far they all focus on general trouble shooting and maintenance, and not actually building an electrical motor. as in volts/amps/watts, wire size, amount of times a wire loops around, force of a magnet, air gap, etc... granted i know there will be limit for me, when it gets to point of elements of periodic table and what is what for materials. but was hoping to at least get over the basics, of general equations and notations.
with above said, the info i have picked up. most use larger magnets on either inside or outside, and then opposite for windings / coils of wire with smaller magnets. but been thinking more about. controlling magnetic forces on everything. other words. so far, all i been seeing, is magnet forces, being applied directly across from each other. were electricity flows from inside to the outside, or vice vs. i am more looking at were electricity could flow in either direction. or rather make that, control electronic magnets in how strong they are on inside (on shaft) or on the outer casing. i guess, kinda of like a variable speed motor. but i want to adjust RPMs and torque on the fly.
thoughts of a *duh* forget term, of train that runs on magnets. were forces constantly change. along with speeds constantly change.
==========================
side track again....
hit me this morning, of using what is that new stuff "carbon fiber" or what ever it is. for some components for the SSTT. yes it is suppose to be lighter than various metals and stronger in certain aspects. and for traction weight is king, but carbon fiber main frame / body, and then pumping say anti freeze / water mixture through things, to act as dynamic weight perhaps. other words smaller frame in areas might prove much better. and then for make up of weight loss. adding in some sort of fluid that could be pumped back and forth between some containers on the SSTT and implements.
==========================
off to google. to see if i can find some books, or online collage course that i can go at my own pace, or youtube. going over electricity and magnets and more so electrical motors.
i am moving away from hydraulic motors. and looking more and more at electrical wheel motors.
the last turbine gear setup just does not work, there is need for fluid movement, and the turbine blade/gear just is not doing what i want it. one of them i locked onto idea, and would not let it go. and hoping i might find away to make it work. by the time i get all the valves worked out, i might as well be looking directly at electrical motor. and skip hyd fluid all together. though, i am still not counting hyd motor completely out. or rather i should make that a hybrid hyd / electrical motor out.
the more i try to use a hyd motor inside the rim of a wheel, the more i am wanting to walk away from them. reasons.... i want to turn into a "control freak" MAHAHAH!!! but seriously, i want as much micro management control possible, in controlling torque, and RPMs of a wheel. at both slow and high MPH (miles per hour) and also wanting high initial starting force (dead stop, and getting things moving)
i am wanting micro management, of how fast a tire spins, not in a complete revolution, but each degree (as in 360 degrees). along with how much torque is applied. per each degree of a revolution. the thought is the more control and more so how fast the control can be achieved. the less compaction, and more traction a agriculture tire could achieve. but catch there is, the more teeth of a gear or rather the more magnets and coils/windings/phases there is, the better. and in that, i am willing to sacrifice, complexity, and efficiency of a electrical motor. for better fine tuned control of torque and RPM per more degrees of control.
other words. many of us been there done that. we be going along plowing snow, or out in the lawn on wet grass on a hill or going through a wet spot on a riding lawn mower or tractor. and wheels begin to slip and spin. i am wanting. to be able to measure, torque being applied, and the RPM's of the tire. and let a computer chip. say HEY. this wheel is starting to slip. lets slightly lower RPM's, or this tire has went down into a hole, and needs to speed up some in RPM's over length of the hole, and just a little bit more torque as wheel comes up and out of the hole / dip in the ground.
as an agricultural tire, R1 or like tire, has large "lugs" or deep tread patterns. once the treads fill up with dirt moving through loose soil. and pressure (from weight of vehicle or tractor) is applied to compact as much dirt up into the treads of tire. you end up at a place, of how much (not sure of the word) hhmmss how much the dirt will stick to other dirt near it. before dirt begins to slide, i suppose i should say molecules of the dirt will slide. and in that cause a tire to "slip" or "spin" within the dirt / mud. while every so slightly and most likely not noticeable to naked eye, that slippage = loss of physical traction. In that, i want ability, to pickup and sense that very small slippage, and as fast as possible adjust RPM's and torque of the wheel. to keep slippage down to a min. if high speed motion video was used. i would imagine a agricultural tractor tire, look like it is "stuttering" as it goes through a field that is going through patches of hard compacted dirt, to loose muddy patches. were the wheel is quickly speeding up, and then almost stopping as it senses a wheel slippage, and tire slows down.
the issue is, the stuttering, will more likely end up be a "vibration" vs a a smooth motion. with hyd motors with no gear or with gear, is sensors and then length of time between changing a valve position to accommodate wheel slippage. and if there is just a little bit of air mixed into the hyd oil. response time is further lengthen. and more likely cause more wheel slippage to happen.
if i go with an electrical motor. with more windings, magnets, etc...i reduce amount of moveable parts that would wear down over time vs hyd motor, in that more likely obtaining a longer life of higher efficiency, of dealing with wheel slippage with electrical motors. response time, between sensor, to changing a RPM's and torque, is only limited by computer chip speed, and length/size of wires, electricity must flow through.
the problem going all electric, is response rate will go higher, but there still will be some "stuttering" / "vibration" if i rely directly on a computer chip. to send electricity to windings / coils in the electrical motor. and in that limited to current age technology of computer chips, in how fast they are to compute information. factors that will always be there. is length and size of wires used and amount of volts/amps/watts used. closer i can get computer chip to windings the better for wheel slippage.
====================
side tracking.....
been hitting some generic online websites that go over electrical and magnets and electrical motors. been to many years to remember generic A/C and D/C courses from collage. so far not real happy of what i have came across yet. so far they all focus on general trouble shooting and maintenance, and not actually building an electrical motor. as in volts/amps/watts, wire size, amount of times a wire loops around, force of a magnet, air gap, etc... granted i know there will be limit for me, when it gets to point of elements of periodic table and what is what for materials. but was hoping to at least get over the basics, of general equations and notations.
with above said, the info i have picked up. most use larger magnets on either inside or outside, and then opposite for windings / coils of wire with smaller magnets. but been thinking more about. controlling magnetic forces on everything. other words. so far, all i been seeing, is magnet forces, being applied directly across from each other. were electricity flows from inside to the outside, or vice vs. i am more looking at were electricity could flow in either direction. or rather make that, control electronic magnets in how strong they are on inside (on shaft) or on the outer casing. i guess, kinda of like a variable speed motor. but i want to adjust RPMs and torque on the fly.
thoughts of a *duh* forget term, of train that runs on magnets. were forces constantly change. along with speeds constantly change.
==========================
side track again....
hit me this morning, of using what is that new stuff "carbon fiber" or what ever it is. for some components for the SSTT. yes it is suppose to be lighter than various metals and stronger in certain aspects. and for traction weight is king, but carbon fiber main frame / body, and then pumping say anti freeze / water mixture through things, to act as dynamic weight perhaps. other words smaller frame in areas might prove much better. and then for make up of weight loss. adding in some sort of fluid that could be pumped back and forth between some containers on the SSTT and implements.
==========================
off to google. to see if i can find some books, or online collage course that i can go at my own pace, or youtube. going over electricity and magnets and more so electrical motors.