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  1. #311
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    just not happening, with trying to squeeze everything into 12" width, 24" high main center frame.

    deciding to go with a wider width of approx 40 inches, and approx 30 inches high.

    moving the engine, hyd pump, generator head, batteries, fuse box, fuel tank/s, all into the center main frame. vs trying to set them off to a 60 foot side.

    redid linkage/s for wheels so wheels can move up and down a few inches, and extend/contract out away from main frame a few inches. and still allow tires to be used as transport mode or field mode. 3pt hitch like linkages seems to won out. simple and easy.

    picture showing 24" tires, but 36" perhaps slightly larger diameter tires should easily be possible.

    if ya truly needed extra height, or perhaps lower profile. the (yellow) brackets, between hyd cylinders and main frame, should be easy enough to swap out. to change height of were main frame was off the ground, for both in transport mode or in field mode.

    going to stay with the unistrat like tracks. thinking of staying with 3 sets (one on top of the other). for 6 bolts. hope that main center bolts. will take more force. and the other outside bolts. i hope, will keep the center portion of track from really warping badly.

    i just boxed myself in though for engine dimensions. if i can keep the engine width down to say 30 inches width, and height below 24" and then how ever long. i should be golden.

    -boggen-elec-sstt33-png
    Ryan

  2. #312
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    i came across article by Jim Patrico from DTN Progressive Farmer

    DTN/The Progressive Farmer: Agriculture Markets, News and Weather

    if link does not work search for....
    Is bigger always bigger? Some Big Farmers Opt to Buy Smaller Equipment
    at DTN/The Progressive Farmer: Agriculture Markets, News and Weather
    Ryan

  3. #313
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    reworked the linkages between sections, not the best ((the big square yellow block)) is my cheat for now. other side of linkages for sections, were the 3 hyd cylinders are. trying to lay some sort of ground work possibly to allow the 3 cylinders and "pinkish/purpleish" support bracket to easily push in / pull out as one single chunk possibily. thinking of using area above and below hyd cylinders. as some sort of place for "quick connect" area for all the hoses and pipes.

    with above said, at moment showing 2 approx 15 foot sections (counting section linkages) figure engine, hyd pump, generator head, muffler and anything else that needs direct connection to engine, and can not be placed in another section. is going to max out a single 15 section. then maybe using a 2nd 15 footer section, for fuel tank, batteries, fuse box, fuel pump, fuel filters, hyd oil filters. not sure about hyd oil coolers... most likely going to be counting on a min of 3 15 foot sections and there linkages between each section. to get the basics. 45 max feet for basics? hhmmsss maybe see what happens.

    more space i can squeeze the width of the main frame down to. the better for linkages to wheels, and linkages to fold/unfold implements.

    -boggen-elec-sstt34-png
    Ryan

  4. #314
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    engine time....

    what can i find that will fit in a 30 x 30 x 120 inches long. the smaller the 30x30 (width x height) the better. needing something that fills 100 to 1000HP

    displays types of engines
    Aircraft engines., Page: 8 | UNT Digital Library
    and more looking at an axial type of engine, were cylinders are parallel to the drive shaft. make it a swash plate or wobble style engine or like engine.

    i am guessing, since i have plenty of length to work with. that there will need to be multi cylinders in a row. that go around a central common drive shaft. other words since piston size will predict overall diameter of engine, and limited to 30x30 inches and wanting smaller if possible. i am going to need to go with some sort of multi smaller cylinders.

    below pictures are from....
    Axial Internal-Combustion Engines.











    contacted duke engines, and received email back within a couple hours. and there just not there yet for mass production and not giving out information.
    Engine Technology, Vehicle, Marine, Light Aircraft, Multi Fuel

    below picture is from...
    "AVEC Axial Vector Engine" Video at Engineering TV | ADBDAT


    ================
    weapons of mass destruction, changed to power the SSTT (sideways snake train tractor)

    torpedoes!

    they have the a design aspect, of small width and height. and then have plenty of length. much like the center frame work setup, i am currently looking at. even if i went back to the 12" wide 24" height. and moved engine and all components to one side of the 60 foot lengths, the torpedo shape engine setups would most likely be what i am looking for.

    below image is from...
    Mark 48 torpedo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    specs from above site
    Weight 3,434 lb (1,558 kg) (original), 3,695 lb (1,676 kg) (ADCAP)
    Length 19 ft (5.79 m)[4]
    Diameter 21 in (533 mm)[4]

    notation that lead me to above website...
    Axial engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ((located clear down page under application))
    The most well-known application is in torpedoes, where the cylindrical shape is desirable. The modern Mark 48 torpedo is powered by a 500 hp swashplate engine geared to a pump-jet propulsor. It is fueled by Otto fuel II, a monopropellant that requires no oxygen supply and can propel the torpedo at up to 65 knots (120 km/h) (74.56 mph).[15]
    remove the fuel tank, remove the war head, remove sensors, and strip it down, to engine, toss on a hyd pump, and generator head. and away i go. ok more involved than that. but.... concept sounds promising.

    =================
    i have looked at other engines, from straight, to V, to radial, to other. and i simply do not see them as being possible. they require to much height, or larger in diameter. along with vibration or rather i should say, to much momentum of pistons swinging around that has to be over come, and firing of each cylinder/piston and the vibration caused by it all.

    alright enough blah blah blah! i think i have something in mind. for 2 plus swash plate design. that might give what i want out of an engine.
    Ryan

  5. #315
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    never much of an engine person, so most likely off on terms...

    double swash plate.
    10 pistons
    20 cylinders

    primary goal is reduce some vibration. in how i have the "swash plates" matched up. when an explosion of the fuel happens. "weight" and "force" of the pistons, is carried off in opposite direction. to either bring the pistons pointing between swash plates together. or apart from the center of the 2 swash plates.

    i suppose, i am technically using 2 engines connected to common drive shaft. not sure how badly the drive shaft would vibrate and want to bend right at the center between the 2 swash plates.

    -boggen-elec-sstt35-png

    EDIT: Mace Canute thread Internal view of combustion chamber
    gave a lead to a video, that gives idea i was thinking about with above engine setup....
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d78_1305139595
    Last edited by boggen; 03-02-2013 at 10:05 PM.
    Ryan

  6. #316
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    re-write 5. getting a tad annoyed with myself, due to lack of indecision. a lot comes from lack of knowledge. and i keep changing my mind as things click.

    alright....
    started drawing something up, and when i stepped back from it, it was a mix between turbine engine and piston/cylinder engine.

    i like the turbine ability of lots of HP and lower weight, but what i do not like is the high "air volume" per min that would need to go through the engine. your talking a tractor here. seeing dust, weed seeds, leaves, snow,ice, water, mud splashing. if i tried to move such a high volume of air. there would most likely be a huge amount of "plugging" of screens and filters. an air plane, a jet, a helicopter, a large boat or should say ship. they have a cleaner environment that the engines most likely would run in. vs a tractor out in fields, and going through dirt roads, and muddy ruts, etc....

    the other issue with turbines, is material needed to handle the higher temperatures. which of course, would most likely cost more $$$$

    the high RPM's could most likely be dealt with, at the generator head and hyd pump and air pump. even if i needed to use some gear to reduce RPM's of a turbine engine.

    i do like the simple shaft/s ability of turbine engines.

    -----------
    piston/cylinder engines. i just do not like the "vibration" even with the last post picture/s.

    i guess what i am looking for.... is some sort of "timed" air/fuel mixture engine. that has mini explosions of air/fuel. vs a constant stream of air/fuel in a turbine engine, that gets away from piston/cylinder. ya a timed air/fuel mixture, like a piston/cylinder engine. would create a vibration. between each explosion. but the ability to adjust air/fuel mixture, and roughly predict RPM's over a wider range, and torque. it would be nice to get to something that has a few more "piston/cylinders" vs concentrated in only a handful of pistons/cylinders. (ggrr need to say combustion areas)

    or, i go with a bunch of smaller size turbine engines. that are all built into a common engine. that allowed lower RPM's. but ability to adjust torque. while maintaining RPM's. hhmssss.....

    a turbine engine, with idea of such a high volume of air both being positive and negative pressures. and hooked into say an air seeder or like. and if exhaust could be cool down enough. ya right, that would most likely over crowd the engine section of the 3 to 4 sections that make up the SSTT.

    =============
    hhmmmssss.... turbine engines....

    as much as i like the idea of a turbine engine type in the SSTT, the con's are to much.

    =============
    attached diagrams, just me, trying to think things through...

    -boggen-elec-sstt36-png

    -boggen-elec-sstt37-png
    Ryan

  7. #317
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    Ryan the torpedo only makes 1 high speed trip then it is over or sinks.
    Consider a turbine from heliocopter . only problem high fuel consuption.
    And needing a good gear redeuction box.
    keep thinking , good reading.
    ken

  8. #318
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    "top left change langauge", bottom right, click motoren. and get listings of animation of a bunch of different designs.
    ringmotor verbrennungs-motoren pumpen multifunktionsaggregate combustion engines

    listings of various types of rotary engines.
    Open Directory - Science: Technology: Energy: Devices: Internal Combustion Engines: Rotary

    (yikes!) long list
    List of aircraft engines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    getting there but not yet...
    Pistonless rotary engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    a bunch of engine types (history)
    Rotary Steam Engines.

    more for myself, to refresh my memory of how fluid dynamics occur. and the idea of how a shaft like turbine engine might work.
    The Altmann Combustion Force Turbine (CFT)

    wave disc engine? hope got correct term.
    MSU researchers create a new engine prototype (w/ video)
    Shock wave puts hybrid engines in a spin - tech - 15 March 2011 - New Scientist

    torpedo engine
    Russian Military Forces | Aviation | Navy | Infantry firearms | Communications | Ground systems | Weapon photogallery

    something to judge things by.
    Ward's 10 Best Engines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    peswiki.com has caught me off guard over last few months, and end up seeing a varying different contraptions.
    Directory:Engines - PESWiki

    a list of manufactures of truck engines but not sure what is required to get listed.
    Deprecated Browser Error

    ==============
    fluid dynamics. just seems like aaaa what is that? as i look at some engine types, and i scratch my head. in trying to make the most use, of the explosion of air/fuel mixture. and ensuring the entire air/fuel mixture is used up before leaving the exhaust pipe. along with transferring that explosive energy to wanted component. i see more 2D vs 3D visualizations. and just like aaaaa.... i see more flat surface to flat surface. vs a curved surfaces that might better focus explosion of air/fuel as it expands. kinda like treating the explosion like a solid rod just extending through a combustion chamber or in a piston/cylinder. vs actually identifying eddy currents within the combustion chamber. and focusing things as i look at various engine types.

    i see a good amount of movement but there is still trading one vibration, for another vibration. but its not not as noticeable because you can not feel it by just touching the engine.

    i gotta question some designs were not the full amount of exhaust can be expelled. (larger area of the combustion chamber or in a piston cylinder, is left with exhaust before next stage)

    still soaking it all in.

    ==================
    ==================
    back and forth, back and forth....

    below video...
    Gas Turbine Animation - YouTube
    and remembering about, how air to fluid pumps and fans work when in series vs parallel. and when pumps/fans are placed in series, pressure is raised, and flow rate stays the same. when pumps/fans are placed in parallel, flow rate raises, but pressure stays the same.

    so no i am getting more head strong towards turbine engine.

    i would like to stay with min of 3 sections. possibly 4 sections.

    1 section, engine, generator, hyd pump, air pump for tires,
    1 section, for fuel
    1 other section, never really came about anything.

    thinking that third section, becoming an "air filter" yep 13 feet long air filter. minus a couple feet, for say batteries, fuse box, and like. small stuff. perhaps combining radiators / hyd oil coolers. into the air filter setup. maybe "heating up" air going into turbine. there would need to be most likely brushes and air jets to do a generic automatic cleaning of air filters. (not perfect cleaning, but enough to keep things going)

    as much as i would prefer lower RPM's to deal with bearing life. i need to wrap my mind around, those high RPM's might be a good thing. higher RPM's at generator might be good thing. it is not like i am using a transmission, to put power through drive shafts and gears directly to the wheels. but rather, using electricity most likely, so i really do not need to worry about gear ratio's. a higher RPM would most likely give a higher frequency, of electricity. might be nice in that respect. if i went with D/C vs A/C. D/C would more likely have a much flatter line with less min dips within the line, when having higher RPM's.

    hyd pump. i could use smaller size diameter pistons. to get a desired GPM (gallons per minute). due to higher RPM's. most likely faster reaction times. between pump turning on/off or when something that requires hyd fluid to do something.

    problem is, the cost of a turbine engine. and parts. more so bearings.

    other issue, is such a long main shaft/shafts. if the main frame section, gets nailed. or vibrations come in through the wheels. i would be kissing the engine good bye, as it shatters into pieces. i suppose it would depend on properties of material the main shaft/s is made from. that would allow some deflection / bending slight twisting. without any major ill effects.

    *rubs chin*

    between, hydraulic pump, generator head, air pump for tires... which ever one produces least amount of heat, and less effected by heat would be 1st. going to guess generator head would be first, due to all the wires and insulation on the wires. then air pump for tires, then hydrualic pump. then compressor/fan blades for engine, then combustion chamber, and then turbine/fan blades.

    so how do i deal with wires coming off the generator, and placement of fuse box/s. i say fuse boxes, but most likely have computer chip, fuses, relays, and were main wire harnesses would connect per each section.

    ================
    alright, need to collect my thoughts some. as i have chicken scratching in autodesk.

    DESCRIPTION OF ATTACH DIAGRAMS!

    continuing off of last set of diagrams in last post of mine.....

    1. using circles and cutting them up to make "vanes" air enters through the center, the blades/vanes turn. an explosion happens, then blades turn more. and the air coming from center helps push exhaust out, into an outer ring.

    2. same as 1, but trying to see how doubling them up would look

    3. same as 1, but looking to see if i could change direction. of one of the set of vanes/blades. to act as a better "compressor" to compress air and or air/fuel mixture, before the explosion happens.

    4. went from circles to "spirals" to make better use of space.

    5. remove extra garbage on the inside and outside of creating the spirals

    6. turn the spirals into actual pipes, that are bent into sprials.

    7, 8,9 7 and 9 are 2 halves that would have to make up #8. no other way to get around it, for actually machining the pieces out.

    10. trying to show "flames" or rather explosions coming out the ends of the 6 spirals.

    11. hiding things away, and showing what the blade/vanes would more likely look like with flames / explosions coming out the ends.

    12. wanted to see how things would stack up. i really do not like the "straight" notations. and most likely would want to "spiral" the flames/explosions around the entire center drive shaft. to possibly pickup some better explosions efficiency.

    13, 14. just trying to see if i could stack more vanes/blades in a more compact form, and if it would pay off or not.

    15. thinking about changing spirals from "flat" spiral. to more of a "coil" like a spring. so air coming into the pipes/vanes/blades. it is not having to take a sharp sudden 90 degree change of direction. and in that loose my velocity (think miles per hour) of how fast the air is moving along with "pressure" loss.

    16. trying to see if a squirrel cage like fan, might produce a high enough pressure, for everything. and frankly i doubt it is possible. at least in the space i have available. granted i will most likely proven wrong some were down the line. but the issue with squirrel cage fan is, it causes air to change sudden directions multi. times. and it would require extra space, that simply is not there, at least at first glance. and at this moment in time not worth while for me to look into.

    ==============
    a regular turbine engine for say a air plane/jet, helicopter, boat/ship. has something going for vs the squirrel cage fan above. and that is how the "compressor" or i should say "box fans" you might have in your house during summer to cool off.

    if you took one box fan in your home, and put say a large 50 gallon trash bag around its sides, and used say ducttape to hole bag in place. so fan would blow air into the trash bag. the bag would inflat. but most likely not stretch or pop.

    now if you took TWO box fans same size, and taped both of them together. (front of one fan, to back of other fan, and then into bag). you may see the trash begin to stretch possibly even start to tear a hole.

    now if you took say FOUR box fans, (front of 1st fan, to back of 2nd fan, then front of 2nd fan to back of 3rd fan, then front of 3rd to back of 4th fan, the trash bag. as soon as you turn all 4 fans on at the same time. the trash bag would most likely expand and POP! within a fairly short time.

    your not creating "extra air flow" you are creating extra pressure by doing this. just like if you blow up a balloon, as balloon gets bigger and bigger it gets harder to blow up the balloon, eventually balloon gets so big it pops.

    the extra pressure, when looking at a piston/cylinder. when the piston goes down within the cylinder, it draws in air and/or air/fuel (pending if diesel or gas engine). when the piston comes back up. valves close, and the air and/or air/fuel mixture gets compressed. and some place right before or during or after, as the piston comes all the way up, and right before piston goes down, the air/fuel mixture explodes.

    for a turbine engine. there really is no "piston" air needs to be compressed, non stop. there can not be really any sort of pause between non compressed air and compressed air.

    alright getting back on the "box fan" example. normally on most house hold box fans. you have low, medium, and high settings. low = lower RPMs, and high = higher RPMs. more RPM's = higher air to flow and a stronger wind that is felt, when dealing with turbine engine, and trying to compress the air. higher RPM's cause a higher compression of the air. (more RPM's = more pressure that gets created and compressing of air happens at a faster rate).

    =========
    my issue is, how do i control the compression independently of the turbine. (explosions / constant flame). what i am trying to get at. would it be worth while. to say put a transmission between, the compressor (bunch of box fans), and turbine (explosions/constant flame) so that, i can achieve different compression ratios. and also at same time control different amounts of fuel that get pumped into the engine. so that i might be able to achieve a "wider" range of efficiency, both say idle, to 100HP range, 200HP range, 300HP range, 400HP range 600 HP range. ((other words an all in one engine))

    or do look at reducing transmission losses. and going with a transmission setup, that might allow better efficiency. say (gear transmission vs HST transmission). and require "engine swaps" to gain those extra few percents of efficiency. when X amount of HP is needed. to gain better fuel use.

    things get a tad more complicated....
    a turbine engine, needs to stay running at higher RPM's when at idle. and this of course uses more fuel. to obtain that higher RPM. if have fields that are relatively all flat, narrowing down a HP range say between 300 to 350HP might be possible. but if your fields are hilly, and ya going up and down hills. that range maybe more like 250 to 400HP. (250 going down, 400 going up hills). a engine that might be less efficient overall (using HST transmission for compress). might prove more fuel efficient, overall, when dealing with large swings of HP requirements. and when considering multi type of implements. that require less or more HP to pull them through the fields.....

    BUT... would it be better setup, for a engine matched to implement type of thing, and going with a gear transmission.

    ===============
    i need to get into a different mind frame. of current age tractors and there implements. right now, it is more of sizing tractor and implement together. but with the SSTT. the frame work, wheels, etc... will be set at a specific overall "width" example 60 foot wide. and that is not going change. SSTT to SSTT. but implements connected would. so i guess. i should look more at easier "engine swapping". and focus more on trying to achieve higher efficiency in selected HP ranges. for the different engines. and for now shooting for the "largest" of the HP engine. to make sure there is room / space for it. and then smaller engines. would be easier to drop in and go.

    yikes, talk about a ramble to figure out about going with HST or gear transmission, for dealing with the compressor (box fans). and i am still not really sure what may be best, i guess engines will become like implements for current age tractors. were different manufactures, will offer different engines for the SSTT. vs offering a whole new set of wheels or tracks, and main frame, and cab. they would just be offering "engines". in attempt to gain market share. and perhaps focus on smaller markets, were a different type of engine, or HP range, or like might work better than some other engine. to a point of offering diesel, to gas, to jet engine fuel, to LP / propane gas engines, to pure electrical engine, and set of batteries, other. pending on location in world and what might be cheaper for fuel. or what ever the new "technology is"

    ===============
    alright... turbine engines...

    i have a dead space, between the sections that make up the SSTT. that hole "pivoting and rotating" is wasted space. i can not hook up any wheels, or linkages that fold/unfold implements, i can not put any sort of support frame work for a wagon in those areas. thinking about running the "exhaust" pipe in between 2 sections.

    the issue is, how do i deal with the heat. and EPA and like regulations.

    right now i am looking at using the air, going into the compressor for the turbine engine, as a way to cool down, generator head, hyd pump, air pump for tires. but at the same time. is there a way to recover the heat, that would go out the rear of the turbine....

    i am extremely limited on space. and will have wires, to oils, to fuel, running right across the main frame, that the turbine engine will set in. talking 1/2" maybe even directly connected to exhaust port frame work of the turbine engine. i am a little skiddish, of trying to run exhaust that is HOT!, down any sort of length of the SSTT. and at same time, if i raise the air temp going into the turbine. i would be heating up generator head, hyd pump, air pump for tires.

    i really can not focus exhaust straight down, (would be dragged through mud and water). i really can not position exhaust to any side, due to interference with an implement, and melting any wires or hoses, so only thing i have left is up. or trying to run some sort of "flat" rectangular shape exhaust piping. across the top of the main frame.

    i might be able. to pipe in "cool air" / intake air. from one end of a section down to other end of same section of the SSTT. and maybe. extend both intake (cold air), and outtake air (exhaust) into another section. were i might be able to allow some sort of heat exchange. between the 2 types. if i went this route though. i would most likely be better off. cooling generator head, hyd pump, air pump for tires. with a secondary smaller fan/s. so i am not heating them up. and at same time not having to run as much duct work for the intake air for the turbine engine. and in that possibly achieving a better efficiency from the compressor, and in that better fuel efficiency. granted there would be a slight loss of needing to run another cooling fan. but.... that extra complexity, may make servicing, generator head, hyd pump, air pump for tires. much easier.

    --this might actually work out even better. the "screens/filters" for the air intake. most likely going to need brushes, and then some form of pressurized air. to do kinda of an automatic cleaning of air filters and screens to keep them, from plugging up solid. if i could maybe. valve the exhaust, just a little bit. so i could use pressure and air flow from exhaust to clean the screens and filters...
    --an idea, but, not sure if it would pan out vary well. more so if different engines get used. i would most likely be better off, with a dedicated small little air pump / blower, like a leaf blower. to make sure everything can work. without need to "re-make/duplicate" everything based on different engines.

    ============
    ok... back to the "box fan, and trash bag" example i been going with.

    alright had the idea, and then just got jumbled up...
    time to post before loosing everything

    -boggen-elec-sstt38-png
    Ryan

  9. #319
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    Ryan the torpedo only makes 1 high speed trip then it is over or sinks.
    Consider a turbine from heliocopter . only problem high fuel consuption.
    And needing a good gear redeuction box.
    keep thinking , good reading.
    ken
    ya, i know high fuel consumption. the entire way of how a Turbine engine runs. and need for constant steady stream of fuel....*cringes* reason of trying to figure out a way, that might allow for a timed "explosions" vs a non stop steady flame.

    my comments regarding large amount of "air" that will need to be filtered has me as well. on a typical engine in cars, trucks, current age tractors. the air filter/s only need to handle what is going straight into the cylinders were the pistons are. but with a turbine engine, you are basically forced to filter all the air. including air from the fan that is normally located between radiators / hyd oil coolers, and motor itself in current age stuff.

    if i could find something or figure out a way, to reduce amount of air needed, and lower RPMs, and controlled explosions, like a piston/cylinder engine. i might be golden.

    =========
    gear reduction box. been thinking perhaps not. maybe for hyd pump, or air pump for tires. but generator head, i have to question need for any sort of gear box. if the generator is setup for better, variable RPM's, variable torque setup. trying to break out of the "mind set, of needing a given RPM and/or torque" mind frame. kinda like manual gear transmissions, vs HST transmissions that have unlimited amount of gear ratio ability. but for generators, it does not have to be a transmission / gear box. just running extra sets of wires within generator, and turning them on/off could act as a way to have transmission like ability for generator itself only.
    Ryan

  10. #320
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    Default Re: new tractor idea possibly....

    needing a break of thinking.....

    random rough statics....
    going up to --> "my home" --> "attachments" (left side at bottom) i can see how many views each pictured has been viewed. going to assume, tractorbynet website, only registers a "view" by someone physically clicking on picture, to see the larger view of a picture.

    roughly min view = about 10 to 14 views. and high side of roughly 30 to 50 views. with i would say average (without actually adding up all the numbers, way to many pictures), approx average of 15 views to 20 views for each picture. larger pictures or pictures not easily to understand in thumbnail view size, are opened and viewed more.

    if i compare other diagrams i made, and posted else were on TBN, that are not related to this thread. views are near 50 to 200 views. with i would say more near 150 views average.

    if i go strictly by what tractorbynet forum displays for statics for thread, it is about 50 views per post. if i take into account, multi posts in the same day, and a person only opening this thread, once to see all those posts of given day, it comes out more near 80 to 140 views per post/s in a given day if there was any post in a given day. range depends on time of day a post is submitted and views obtained.

    having some insight of vbulletin software (software TBN uses for forums), and how search engines, (google, yahoo, etc..) search a website for updates. i gotta assume those computer like searches are not registration as physical views, of this thread or any other thread on this forum. and views noted are actual people opening and looking at thread/posts.

    most part the above averages / numbers has not really changed, beyond, the initial first few posts of a given start of a thread. were views spike with more views. though i have seen a slight increase of pictures views, since initial starting thread. gaining an extra person viewing pictures (larger version of them), about every 3 to 4 weeks.

    i realize this post may be bad form, for this thread, but it is what it is. i realize i should place more focus on better presentation, but to much "extra work" vs spending time trying to figure things out and get it done.
    Ryan

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