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boggen
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new tractor idea possibly....
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OP
boggen
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so main frame bottom. is for most part solid along with...
--how implements fold/unfold
--going between transport mode to field mode and back again
--along with weight distribution.
--if only 1 implement is loaded on 20feet side. wheels can (slide over) some, to offset the weight to help "balance" the load, when in transport mode.
================
the short end implements....
--mini section that has a cab...
--mini section that is a cab, and no other implements that unfold from it.
--20 feet section, were cab sets on top middle. and engines a engine on both side.
----to make room for cab, some engines and like are removed from the center of the section.
--bump pull hitch/tongue
--pintail / fifth wheel hitch
--semi trailer type of hitch
--limited degree hinge (flex joint) between 2 sections of machine
--limited degree hinge (flex joint) between 2 sections of machine, that also folds out
---- so you could have say 60 foot long (main transport drive tractor), then another 60 feet trailer machine behind that pulls like a 2 axle grain wagon.
--if implement requires more HP than STB can provide at pulling 20 feet width, you could go with say 8 to what ever you can legally get by going down the road with.
----perhaps running 2 sections and short width bottom plow.
----other words STB would turn into kinda of current age tractor and short width bottom plow setup
--hitch that would accept current age implements that get get up into the cat 3 and cat 4 sizes...
----no one ever said the short end of this machine, could not have an implement that "unfolded" like current age implements
--smaller width implement than what would fit on 20 feet side. so...
----((assuming same type of implement is on all 3 sides of STB))
----driving down field in 20 to 40 to 100 plus width
----reach end of field, lift the multi implements along the width of STB
----fold the short end implement down
----turn wheels 90 degree
----scoot machine down edge of field so many feet.
----lift short end implement
----place long width implements down.
--powered caster wheels for short end implement
----to turn this STB into a monster "ZERO TURN"
----your normal various implements that might be combined with above caster wheels and a single 20 feet x 8 feet section, to turn it into kinda a large size current age tractor then toss (plows, chisels, discs, seeders, air seeders, choppers, rotatory cutters "bush hogs", finishing mowers, rear blades, box blades, etc...) on other end of the 20 x 8 feet section.
--FEL (front end loader) could be possible on short end. the TNT (Top aNd Tilt) like links. should be enough there to lower/raise arms, and would just need second set for bucket cylinders...ARGHS!!
================
perhaps i should go with 2 top links on the short ends... there is room for them...
been tempted to place a "12v DC winch" per 20feet wide sides. perhaps on short ends as well. to help fold implements up. but to act as a backup, to keep implements folded up while going down the road...perhaps used to help drag each implement over to the STB. when trying to attach implements... maybe this would be optional package. that just bolts on to the frame up on top were engines and like are.
--how implements fold/unfold
--going between transport mode to field mode and back again
--along with weight distribution.
--if only 1 implement is loaded on 20feet side. wheels can (slide over) some, to offset the weight to help "balance" the load, when in transport mode.
================
the short end implements....
--mini section that has a cab...
--mini section that is a cab, and no other implements that unfold from it.
--20 feet section, were cab sets on top middle. and engines a engine on both side.
----to make room for cab, some engines and like are removed from the center of the section.
--bump pull hitch/tongue
--pintail / fifth wheel hitch
--semi trailer type of hitch
--limited degree hinge (flex joint) between 2 sections of machine
--limited degree hinge (flex joint) between 2 sections of machine, that also folds out
---- so you could have say 60 foot long (main transport drive tractor), then another 60 feet trailer machine behind that pulls like a 2 axle grain wagon.
--if implement requires more HP than STB can provide at pulling 20 feet width, you could go with say 8 to what ever you can legally get by going down the road with.
----perhaps running 2 sections and short width bottom plow.
----other words STB would turn into kinda of current age tractor and short width bottom plow setup
--hitch that would accept current age implements that get get up into the cat 3 and cat 4 sizes...
----no one ever said the short end of this machine, could not have an implement that "unfolded" like current age implements
--smaller width implement than what would fit on 20 feet side. so...
----((assuming same type of implement is on all 3 sides of STB))
----driving down field in 20 to 40 to 100 plus width
----reach end of field, lift the multi implements along the width of STB
----fold the short end implement down
----turn wheels 90 degree
----scoot machine down edge of field so many feet.
----lift short end implement
----place long width implements down.
--powered caster wheels for short end implement
----to turn this STB into a monster "ZERO TURN"
----your normal various implements that might be combined with above caster wheels and a single 20 feet x 8 feet section, to turn it into kinda a large size current age tractor then toss (plows, chisels, discs, seeders, air seeders, choppers, rotatory cutters "bush hogs", finishing mowers, rear blades, box blades, etc...) on other end of the 20 x 8 feet section.
--FEL (front end loader) could be possible on short end. the TNT (Top aNd Tilt) like links. should be enough there to lower/raise arms, and would just need second set for bucket cylinders...ARGHS!!
================
perhaps i should go with 2 top links on the short ends... there is room for them...
been tempted to place a "12v DC winch" per 20feet wide sides. perhaps on short ends as well. to help fold implements up. but to act as a backup, to keep implements folded up while going down the road...perhaps used to help drag each implement over to the STB. when trying to attach implements... maybe this would be optional package. that just bolts on to the frame up on top were engines and like are.
OP
boggen
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View attachment 280207
adjustments to short end top links to have 2 on each end.
View attachment 280208
fill like a kid in a candy store, and told to get as much as you want and what ever you want....
been thinking hydraulics. and more so hydraulics ran in shops, and factories. i thought about making "loops" that go all the way around machine. this could possibly allow for "smaller diameter" piping, and help balance pressure / GPM of hyd oil through out the system.
figure the pipes could be placed one on top of one other. with some "pipe holders" holding the pipes to some stand offs. i am going to assume some implements / STB setups going to require power beyond, and various valving setups. so there would need to be a way. to easily TEE into these main hyd lines. and come off of them for the valves and like. perhaps the supports that come up from the frame. turn these supports into actual TEE's themselves. and just place a end cap into the TEE. and let customer choose what they want as far as what they want for valving and were they want the valves.
example i would assume someone might want "power beyond" type of setup. to connect 2 or more 20x8 feet sections together. and just having a single engine out of the 2 sections running everything.
some may want some sort of electronic valve (proportional valve), with a "manual override" for attaching / UN-attaching implements.
some may not need / want short end hydraulic links.
i could almost see someone might wanting a pipe that loops around an entire section, and have a hyd accumulator on that line.
i would assume what ever way the engines were pointed more specifically the variable displacement pumps were nearest to. that the hyd to the "transmission/s" would be tee'ed off and sent down. (closer the better)
=================
the entire machine would look like a triangle on wheels. if it had implements on both 20feet sides that were folded up. but how many degrees do these implements fold back into the center of the machine? "clearance"
with links being below the main frame. i would imagine 45 degree would be MAX, but what about 67.5 degree angle. i do not know about that 67.5 angle. would still most likely place most of the weight of implement in transport mode onto the links. vs allowing the implement to rest on top of the STB.
stating links are below main frame. someone may want for what ever reason. move a link or links to above the main frame. it would be nice to see say 8" maybe 10" inches all the way around the top of the frame. just to "mount" something.
==========
getting off track again...
never really thought about it but 20 x 8 would kinda look like a hay wagon.
i wonder if it would be possible to shrink the "width down" from 20 feet to what ever smaller it could be achieved. just thinking 8 tires that are 1.5 width, 2 feet diameter for 20x8. that would be a lot of ground pressure. something smaller than 20 feet...a smaller width would really help reduce the weight i would imagine.
adjustments to short end top links to have 2 on each end.
View attachment 280208
fill like a kid in a candy store, and told to get as much as you want and what ever you want....
been thinking hydraulics. and more so hydraulics ran in shops, and factories. i thought about making "loops" that go all the way around machine. this could possibly allow for "smaller diameter" piping, and help balance pressure / GPM of hyd oil through out the system.
figure the pipes could be placed one on top of one other. with some "pipe holders" holding the pipes to some stand offs. i am going to assume some implements / STB setups going to require power beyond, and various valving setups. so there would need to be a way. to easily TEE into these main hyd lines. and come off of them for the valves and like. perhaps the supports that come up from the frame. turn these supports into actual TEE's themselves. and just place a end cap into the TEE. and let customer choose what they want as far as what they want for valving and were they want the valves.
example i would assume someone might want "power beyond" type of setup. to connect 2 or more 20x8 feet sections together. and just having a single engine out of the 2 sections running everything.
some may want some sort of electronic valve (proportional valve), with a "manual override" for attaching / UN-attaching implements.
some may not need / want short end hydraulic links.
i could almost see someone might wanting a pipe that loops around an entire section, and have a hyd accumulator on that line.
i would assume what ever way the engines were pointed more specifically the variable displacement pumps were nearest to. that the hyd to the "transmission/s" would be tee'ed off and sent down. (closer the better)
=================
the entire machine would look like a triangle on wheels. if it had implements on both 20feet sides that were folded up. but how many degrees do these implements fold back into the center of the machine? "clearance"
with links being below the main frame. i would imagine 45 degree would be MAX, but what about 67.5 degree angle. i do not know about that 67.5 angle. would still most likely place most of the weight of implement in transport mode onto the links. vs allowing the implement to rest on top of the STB.
stating links are below main frame. someone may want for what ever reason. move a link or links to above the main frame. it would be nice to see say 8" maybe 10" inches all the way around the top of the frame. just to "mount" something.
==========
getting off track again...
never really thought about it but 20 x 8 would kinda look like a hay wagon.
i wonder if it would be possible to shrink the "width down" from 20 feet to what ever smaller it could be achieved. just thinking 8 tires that are 1.5 width, 2 feet diameter for 20x8. that would be a lot of ground pressure. something smaller than 20 feet...a smaller width would really help reduce the weight i would imagine.
aczlan
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For power and attachment, I might look at something like the MK48
For powering the wheels, how about a HVDC or 3 phase AC bus and motors on the wheels? Add and remove generators as needed to maintain power.
Mason Dixon Farms in addition to powering their farm on bio-gas produced electricity has 3 phase AC powered implements for some of their tractors.
Here is one of their setups: Mason Dixon Farm - Page 2 - flyaway's Photos IIRC the tracked trailer is self propelled and the box comes off. They fill the box, drop it off by the entrance, grab a empty one and then a truck with a road chassis backs under the full trailer to taker it to the farm.
Aaron Z
For powering the wheels, how about a HVDC or 3 phase AC bus and motors on the wheels? Add and remove generators as needed to maintain power.
Mason Dixon Farms in addition to powering their farm on bio-gas produced electricity has 3 phase AC powered implements for some of their tractors.
Here is one of their setups: Mason Dixon Farm - Page 2 - flyaway's Photos IIRC the tracked trailer is self propelled and the box comes off. They fill the box, drop it off by the entrance, grab a empty one and then a truck with a road chassis backs under the full trailer to taker it to the farm.
Aaron Z
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boggen
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had to see for myself if an extra side link and end links were removed. what it would give and would there be any major major! advantage
View attachment 280215
2 20 feet sections = 40 feet
2 sections created into a single section = 35
2 sections created into a single section = 33
not sure about the 33 one. with 3 sets of links. i am not sure how an implement would be "divided up" so it would "flow / roll" with the land better (over high / low spots)
7 feet is a lot! when considering how much weight 7 feet of frames, hyd cylinders, engines, hyd oil, etc.. could fill up. but when spread over 16 wheels.... perhaps more wheels if a "tire implement" gets added....
i guess i really can not do much about anything for above. the STB would need to get made into some computer 3D program. with everything down to the niddy griddy. and hopefully the program would state how heavy everything would end up being. to get ground pressure at the tires... and see if something would really need to be done for compaction or not and spreading the weight out....
View attachment 280215
2 20 feet sections = 40 feet
2 sections created into a single section = 35
2 sections created into a single section = 33
not sure about the 33 one. with 3 sets of links. i am not sure how an implement would be "divided up" so it would "flow / roll" with the land better (over high / low spots)
7 feet is a lot! when considering how much weight 7 feet of frames, hyd cylinders, engines, hyd oil, etc.. could fill up. but when spread over 16 wheels.... perhaps more wheels if a "tire implement" gets added....
i guess i really can not do much about anything for above. the STB would need to get made into some computer 3D program. with everything down to the niddy griddy. and hopefully the program would state how heavy everything would end up being. to get ground pressure at the tires... and see if something would really need to be done for compaction or not and spreading the weight out....
OP
boggen
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having everything electric, or for most part electric. would simplify good portion of things.
generators would be for sure "easy move in / out" if a gen went bad or broke down for what ever reason. get a fork lift or like in there remove gen. and replace gen for another gen that was setting off to the side that is working.
having most things electric, would reduce risk of a HUGE amount of hyd oil, all of a sudden being pumped out into middle of the field, due to something broke / cracked / ripped apart.
excellent post Aaron Z! not enough time to fully digest your entire post at this moment. need to take off to get some other things done. ya gave me something to ponder over, as i am out and about THANKS!
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boggen
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going to have to read up and do some googling for water proof, moisture proof, dust proof, vibration proof, connectors for electrical rated at high enough amps.... regular RV or camper / trailers, or dryer connecters just not made for being banged around. i would imagine. and more made for "stationary" objects that do not move while electricity is being sent through the connectors / plugs...
i like idea of electrical motors going down to the drive wheels over hyd oil. mainly due to possibly connections you could do. but my big concern for the one type of connection i have in mind. is when little kid when them "race tracks" for 12vdc cars. were cars were about size of 2 thumbs side by side. is the springs and the "rails" that went down to the tracks would quickly wear out. and jamb up with grim. i would imagine if i looked at full size electrical trains. were they receive power directly through the rails the wheels go on. i might find something there. but i am still a little skiddish on that idea.
i am also skiddish on hyd oil. and large 360 joint that would be needed. to drive hyd oil down to the drive wheels. tracked excavators have been around long enough that surely manufactures have them down. to keep contaminants from the outside world from getting into things...
i suppose the actual electrical motor or hydrostatic transmission would not ""need"" to set clear down below everything. i might be able to just run a drive shaft, right through the center of the 360 joint. and then have gear box down below. to do all the forward / reversing... but at moment i am almost wanting the extra weight down below. just to lower center of gravity of the machine. both in transport mode and in field mode.
arghs that is another thing.... is getting just a min amount of electricity down to the drive wheels to adjust valves / switches, etc... that would be needed regardless of placement of electrical motor or hydrostatic transmissions...
my other issue, is i am not up on par with the various phases of electricity. each section of the STB will at bare min have 2 engines (one near each short end). possibly up to 4 to 8 engines per section. if all the engines had generators on them. would i be driving up just the AMPS. as each engine/generator turned on and was set to different speeds... or would i be also driving up AMPS and Volts.
at moment i kinda prefer HYD cylinders. for the heavy lifting of cylinders. to fold / unfold implements and like. if a valve or cylinder leaks some hyd oil through it. i know were the implement will go (down to the ground) i am not sure if i would be willing to deal with electrical actuators over hyd cylinders. actuators might freeze up leaving an implement still in some sort of "unfold" place. though thinking about it. a good size electrical motor and right type of actuator might leave some extra space under the machine to be able to "squeeze" everything more closer to the drive wheels.
for electricity, if a wire shorted out some place. i might be kissing a ton of cash in electronics good by. the more amps / volts / watts. and something shorted out. greater chance of a "spark" happening some place on machine. and from early spring and prepping the fields for seeding later on. to harvesting, there is a lot of dry material. that can quickly and easily catch on fire.
hhmmmsss.... i could see it both ways electrical over hyd oil. i am all for generators and electrical motors. but... i am not completely seeing the big picture and small details of it just yet. then gain same with hyd oil.
==================
for time being, i think i might be best served. figuring out different implements for machine, and how they attach and work. leaving the electrical vs hyd oil or combo of them on the back burner, and read up when i get burned out on some other tasks.... figure once i have a better idea of how the STB would work over a variety of doings. i might be better able to judge what would be needed.
i am also unsure about large long drive shafts. example PTO on back of a tractor...
i am fairly sure there will be some sort of "hybrid" setup. between the 3 different ways to move and transfer power around. but unsure what may be the more dominant of the 3.
i like idea of electrical motors going down to the drive wheels over hyd oil. mainly due to possibly connections you could do. but my big concern for the one type of connection i have in mind. is when little kid when them "race tracks" for 12vdc cars. were cars were about size of 2 thumbs side by side. is the springs and the "rails" that went down to the tracks would quickly wear out. and jamb up with grim. i would imagine if i looked at full size electrical trains. were they receive power directly through the rails the wheels go on. i might find something there. but i am still a little skiddish on that idea.
i am also skiddish on hyd oil. and large 360 joint that would be needed. to drive hyd oil down to the drive wheels. tracked excavators have been around long enough that surely manufactures have them down. to keep contaminants from the outside world from getting into things...
i suppose the actual electrical motor or hydrostatic transmission would not ""need"" to set clear down below everything. i might be able to just run a drive shaft, right through the center of the 360 joint. and then have gear box down below. to do all the forward / reversing... but at moment i am almost wanting the extra weight down below. just to lower center of gravity of the machine. both in transport mode and in field mode.
arghs that is another thing.... is getting just a min amount of electricity down to the drive wheels to adjust valves / switches, etc... that would be needed regardless of placement of electrical motor or hydrostatic transmissions...
my other issue, is i am not up on par with the various phases of electricity. each section of the STB will at bare min have 2 engines (one near each short end). possibly up to 4 to 8 engines per section. if all the engines had generators on them. would i be driving up just the AMPS. as each engine/generator turned on and was set to different speeds... or would i be also driving up AMPS and Volts.
at moment i kinda prefer HYD cylinders. for the heavy lifting of cylinders. to fold / unfold implements and like. if a valve or cylinder leaks some hyd oil through it. i know were the implement will go (down to the ground) i am not sure if i would be willing to deal with electrical actuators over hyd cylinders. actuators might freeze up leaving an implement still in some sort of "unfold" place. though thinking about it. a good size electrical motor and right type of actuator might leave some extra space under the machine to be able to "squeeze" everything more closer to the drive wheels.
for electricity, if a wire shorted out some place. i might be kissing a ton of cash in electronics good by. the more amps / volts / watts. and something shorted out. greater chance of a "spark" happening some place on machine. and from early spring and prepping the fields for seeding later on. to harvesting, there is a lot of dry material. that can quickly and easily catch on fire.
hhmmmsss.... i could see it both ways electrical over hyd oil. i am all for generators and electrical motors. but... i am not completely seeing the big picture and small details of it just yet. then gain same with hyd oil.
==================
for time being, i think i might be best served. figuring out different implements for machine, and how they attach and work. leaving the electrical vs hyd oil or combo of them on the back burner, and read up when i get burned out on some other tasks.... figure once i have a better idea of how the STB would work over a variety of doings. i might be better able to judge what would be needed.
i am also unsure about large long drive shafts. example PTO on back of a tractor...
i am fairly sure there will be some sort of "hybrid" setup. between the 3 different ways to move and transfer power around. but unsure what may be the more dominant of the 3.
aczlan
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For power plugs, I would go with Anderson Powerpole connectors (Products Brands). They are what are used for winches and other things that operate in a hostile environment.
Aaron Z
Aaron Z
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boggen
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been looking at various implements out there... and trying to decided if there might be a better way to fold/un-fold implements along with on the fly adjustments to implements.
i am looking at these massive frames for 30 plus feet wide implements. but then i see these small size frames that are actually holding the disc, chisel, shank, ripper, plow, cutler, what ever it may be for tillage.
i would imagine there is a certain "distance" between various things (both side to side and how far something travels behind another thing). along with distance between things that might be a combination of MPH, soil properties, depth implement goes into the ground. overall weight on implement, how well implement stays at a certain distance off the ground how much "width" or perhaps i should say "drag" on what ever is in the ground...
random attempts to see if main frames for implements, bend, telescope, angle back and forth
random attempts to try and picture how various implements might fold/un-fold...
the last row of diagrams in above. has been what i been thinking about. but dealing with "seeders" and like that have a boxes of seeds. how do you keep from "dumping" all the see right on top of the machine as the implement folds up all the way...
============
i have also been thinking about the "main drive wheels" i can almost see this STB (side train box) tractor tipping over onto its rear end. with that thought about some sort of "hinge" or perhaps 4 hyd cylinders (6" max) that tilts the entire deck a couple inches in forward to backward directions when in field mode.
thinking this might help with weight distribution, if implement wheels were added for field mode. or perhaps simply adjusting depth of implement attached to the STB (side train box) tractor.
i am looking at these massive frames for 30 plus feet wide implements. but then i see these small size frames that are actually holding the disc, chisel, shank, ripper, plow, cutler, what ever it may be for tillage.
i would imagine there is a certain "distance" between various things (both side to side and how far something travels behind another thing). along with distance between things that might be a combination of MPH, soil properties, depth implement goes into the ground. overall weight on implement, how well implement stays at a certain distance off the ground how much "width" or perhaps i should say "drag" on what ever is in the ground...
random attempts to see if main frames for implements, bend, telescope, angle back and forth
random attempts to try and picture how various implements might fold/un-fold...
the last row of diagrams in above. has been what i been thinking about. but dealing with "seeders" and like that have a boxes of seeds. how do you keep from "dumping" all the see right on top of the machine as the implement folds up all the way...
============
i have also been thinking about the "main drive wheels" i can almost see this STB (side train box) tractor tipping over onto its rear end. with that thought about some sort of "hinge" or perhaps 4 hyd cylinders (6" max) that tilts the entire deck a couple inches in forward to backward directions when in field mode.
thinking this might help with weight distribution, if implement wheels were added for field mode. or perhaps simply adjusting depth of implement attached to the STB (side train box) tractor.
OP
boggen
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looking through the link. and i did not see any sort of "water proof seal" or perhaps.... you put male/female plugs together. and then a clip or pin. to hold the ends together.
the "euro battery connectors" is about nearest thing that looks "heavy duty" enough on the link, to come close.
i know there needs to be some "snug" to fit between both male/female ends for electrical fittings. just to get a good connection between the male/female ends. but there needs to be some sort of mechanical connection. something like hyd oil quick disconnect fittings. that lock the ends together.
the ends need be "strong enough" that i can easily grab a hold of, and put 200lbs of weight on them. to push male/female ends together. or to pull them apart. perhaps not 200lbs. but i could see someone struggling....
some sort of "wiggling" would be nice and built into the male/female ends or more specifically the female ends. so things can be worked out. ((little bit of corrosion, dirt, what not...)) i could care less what some sort of metal not being corrosive. or what not. that makes up the connectors. it is when it does happen. or dirt or like clogs stuff up. and wanting the wiggling to help plug/unplug the connecters.
granted i would still want pins and connectors to be non corrosive, but hopefully get point of wiggle above.
thinking about it. i think some "cheap" short extensions" kinda like an extension cord. but without the cord between the male/female ends of the cord. so if male or female ends get banged up, corroded, etc... the extension could be quickly swapped out. vs having to "re-wire" a new female or new male end. just thinking try to get someone out in the field to try and get enough light, and correct tools to get a few wires redone on a plug would be a troublesome. to a point folks may prefer to replace the entire cord going all the way back to wire harness.
other words instead of replacing a full length wire harness. that connects to a plug that farmer would plug / unplug a few times a year. there would be a short distance of wire between wire harness plug, and physical plug farmer would use. so if plug farmer would used gets damaged. it could be a cheap easy doing... ((double plug)) per say.
the old 555c TLB i have, has some nice wire harnesses connections. were male/female ends push together. and then a 0-ring slides down and then a plastic nut tightens the 2 connections. but these wire harness connections. can be easily broken. and reason why i was thinking of a more robust 2nd plug. that a farmer would generally plug things in.
when i say plug things in, i am thinking implements having electrical motors. vs hyd motors... or just plain wire harnesses between implements and STB (side train box) tractor.