Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 75
  1. #31
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,052
    Location
    Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Tractor
    Kioti DK45SC

    Default Re: What motor lasts longer

    Hmmm. I wonder if a closer comparison might come from Europe where the proportion of diesel automobiles is very high. The uses of these vehicles would be very similar, so a comparison of maintenance and/or lifespan would be closer to an apples-to-apples comparison.
    Now the question is, "does anybody have these data for Europe?"
    BOB

  2. #32
    Veteran Member Mickey_Fx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,132
    Location
    Vancouver Wa.
    Tractor
    Yanmar Fx24D, Cub 3204

    Default Re: What motor lasts longer

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Bert View Post
    Not a chance. Diesel x2 if not 3
    Seems this discussion has taken two paths. I took the original post as more of a theoretical question and that's how I addressed it. The other path appears to be more of a comparison between typ commercially available engines which in my opinion are not apples to apples comparison, equals.

    There are in the past and today examples of large industrial gas (spark ignition) engines that can and do stand toe to toe with diesel engines. Here is an example (see pic) of what is available today. Low speed, 1400-1800 rpm designed to run 24/7. Over in Salt Lake City they try and manage the lakes level by pumping water in/out. There are three I believe, gas powered engines driving pumps, large ones, ones that pump 450,000 gpm, yes per min. Think this project would use gas powered engines if reliability/dependability were not up to the task? With some applications, fuel availability dictates engine design, compression Vs spark, not reliability/durability considerations.

    I have no problem if you take the path of comparing engine types if you want to compare what's available down at your local car/tractor dealer but the original question said all else being equal. I think the GE Waukesha engine is an example of a gas engine that is equal.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -clipboard01-jpg  
    Yanmar Fx24D,
    Koyker 155 loader,
    RSB-1300 tiller
    Cub 3204, 48" mower
    Bolen 1257 GT with tiller

  3. #33
    Super Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    8,632
    Location
    VA
    Tractor
    JD2010, Kubota3450,2550, Mahindra 7520 w FEL w Skid Steer QC w/Tilt Tatch, & BH, BX1500

    Default Re: What motor lasts longer

    Those are engines.
    This side of 40
    JD2010, Kubota L3450/FEL w SK QC, L2550 w FEL
    Mahindra 7520 [Pinky] /FEL w Skid Steer QC/w Tilt Tatch & BH, BX1500 [Mighty Mouse]
    IH37 Baler, CCM165 Drum Mower, JD Rake
    JD 127 bushog, Flail, SK Tilt Tatch , KK tiller, Rhino rear blade, Post driver, post auger, chipper, pallet fork, Grapple/Loader Buddy, Homemade Splitter/DC Welder

  4. #34
    Super Star Member Egon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    17,812
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada

    Default Re: What motor lasts longer

    Are those Waukeshaw engines running on natural gas?

    There are many two and four cycle industrial engines running on natural gas 24-7 - 365 days a year.
    Egon
    50 years behind the times
    Livin in a
    Worn out skin bag filled with rattlin bones

  5. #35
    Platinum Member Carl Bert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    865
    Location
    Rockland county, New York
    Tractor
    Kubota B26, John deere X595

    Default Re: What motor lasts longer

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey_Fx View Post
    Seems this discussion has taken two paths. I took the original post as more of a theoretical question and that's how I addressed it. The other path appears to be more of a comparison between typ commercially available engines which in my opinion are not apples to apples comparison, equals.

    There are in the past and today examples of large industrial gas (spark ignition) engines that can and do stand toe to toe with diesel engines. Here is an example (see pic) of what is available today. Low speed, 1400-1800 rpm designed to run 24/7. Over in Salt Lake City they try and manage the lakes level by pumping water in/out. There are three I believe, gas powered engines driving pumps, large ones, ones that pump 450,000 gpm, yes per min. Think this project would use gas powered engines if reliability/dependability were not up to the task? With some applications, fuel availability dictates engine design, compression Vs spark, not reliability/durability considerations.

    I have no problem if you take the path of comparing engine types if you want to compare what's available down at your local car/tractor dealer but the original question said all else being equal. I think the GE Waukesha engine is an example of a gas engine that is equal.


    I am not really sure how you are comparing apples to apples. You talk about 3 large gas engines running 24/7, but what are you comparing them to? If you had two comparable engines, one gas and one diesel, running 24/7 side by side, and one outlasted the other, that would be another story. But just to say that you know of 3 gas engines that run 24/7, doesn't prove that gas will outlast diesel. It actually doesn't prove anything. Then to say that this project wouldn't have used gas engines if they weren't reliable and dependable, well thats just your opinion. There are a number of reasons why they may have gone with gas engines, budget could have been one of them. Lastly you keep bringing up reliability and dependability. No one is saying that gas engines aren't reliable or dependable, they most certainly are. The title of this thread is "What motor lasts longer"
    2010 Kubota B26 TLB w/hyd thumb. 2004 John Deere X595 w/62" MMM.

    Carl Bertuzzi

  6. #36
    Super Member daugen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    5,050
    Location
    Washington NC (Inner Banks)
    Tractor
    Kubota L5740, Gravely 8199G

    Default Re: What motor lasts longer

    It would be hard to imagine that large a "gas" engine not being powered by "gas" and I don't mean gasoline. How could the economies work out otherwise? Diesel and Gasoline are distributed widely. But if LNG prices are especially low locally, a non-gasoline powered "gas" engine usually lasts much longer and could possibly directly compete with a diesel plant.

    But I think the answer lies with rpm. And at what rpm...900 rpm ship engines last amazingly long, though they usually have quality planned long term maintenance.
    Now what gasoline powered engine is going to produce full output at 900 rpm, or say to a max 1000 rpm spec? I can't think of any. Most of what I've seen is that the lower the rpm, the larger the engine is relative to output. Which adds to cost. But they last longer and are now as likely to be running the main generator for a giant electric boat as they are hooked to a propeller. Likely those Waukeshaws were running at 1200 or 1800 rpm max pumping water, which is full design load. Lastly, and never lastly is cost and budget. But I think there are ways of comparing dollars per horsepower or pound feet of torque. Ultimately, I think the answer to this question is the motor that runs at the slowest speed is likely to last the longest.

    It's all just generalization unless you have a good spec. The wider the spec the more possibilities, and comparison becomes less accurate. But it does allow us to prattle on...
    2012 Kubota L5740HSTC3 with FEL and Long grapple, 1986 Case IH 255, Land Pride PD10 PHD, LP RCR60 & RCF2084 mowers, LP 4' box blade and rear rake, Fred Cain subsoiler, County Line potato plow, County Line 1 bottom plow, 1986 Gravely 8199G with tow behind DR rototiller, 50" deck+40" Gravely wing mowers, Swisher 44 rough cut mower,, Echo 450-18 & 600-24, Echo PPT280, 2014 JD X750 diesel garden tractor, 1968 Cub Cadet 125 under renovation, Husky-Speeco 35 ton splitter, DR tow behind string trimmer

  7. #37
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,141
    Tractor
    Massey

    Default Re: What motor lasts longer

    If you compare it "fair" lb for lb engine material weight, and same wok done compare a 2 stoke gas to diesel.
    Take a quality gas 2 stroke like a husky, or Stihl chainsaw engine where the engine alone weighs about 5lb, but can make 3-5hp for 2,000 hours. It would be atough challange for a 5lb diesel to make that kind of power for so many hours...

  8. #38
    Epic Contributor Soundguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    48,947
    Location
    Central florida
    Tractor
    ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC

    Default Re: What motor lasts longer

    that reminds me of a 4" trash pump we had.. it had a pull start diesel engine.. was cantankerous.. but worked. havn't seen too many small 'lawnmower engine' sized diesels like that...

  9. #39
    Veteran Member Code54's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,731
    Location
    Putnam Co. West Virginia
    Tractor
    Kubota MX5100, Kubota BX25D, MULE Fxt Pro

    Default Re: What motor lasts longer

    Diesel!
    Kubota MX5100
    Kubota BX25D
    1990's Mule 500
    Mule FXT Pro

  10. #40
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    378
    Location
    NSW Australia
    Tractor
    Tractors16-600hp Farm & Earthmoving Equip, Trucks etc.

    Default Re: What motor lasts longer

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Bert View Post
    So you're saying that the ULSD is a poor choice of fuel? Interesting, because I was recently told the opposite. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, just wish I could see some facts that would support either side of the argument.
    There's lot of speculation around ULSD, the facts are hidden & manipulated to support either perspective (Ditto fgor biofuels).
    IMO ULSD is not the best choice of fuel for overall engine longevity - sulphur compounds are a natural lubricant for fuel pumps/injectors, hydrofining to remove the sulphur &/or using low sulphur crude means the oil company's are substituting less effective additives/detergents (ever noticed the extra foaming of ULSD ?) as poor lubricants to meet minimum lubrication standards (which high sulphurs diesel substantially exceeded), there have also been changes in the cloud point, distillation & cetane content coninciding with the intro of ULSD globally in developed markets - The initial noticeable "impact" of ULSD is in on fuel pump seals which now degrade exceeding quickly c.5yrs & less in older gear, those with older tractors with CAV type pumps may experience increased oil consumption as the shaft seal linking the pump to the crankcase degrades...
    Bio fuels (diesel & enthanol) don't sustain prior engine durability experience either, primarily as they're hygroscopic & readily absorb water & have different lubrication/catalytic properties than the fuels they're replacing- potentially unless the bio fuels are dried correctly, stored in closed environments & used within a reasonable period of time all sorts of drama/wear/contaminates can result.
    The other concern with BioDiesel is by absorbing water it actually promotes the growth of algae in diesel tanks....again causing all sorts of drama.

    How did I come to the conclusion of what's best for our operation? We engaged a specialist fuel engineering company to analyse & make recommendations (at a cost of $60K+)., I too have been tempted by Biofuels as use across our Truck, Farm & Earthmoving fleet & was even contemplating installing a Biodiesel plant (extremely cost effective growing/using our oil seed cropping), as just buying Biodiesel would have saved conservatively $17K+/yr in fuel costs, with a self managed plant exponetially more ..........
    I elected the risks far outway any running cost benefit & though also forced down the ULSD path because of what's commercial available, on the advice of our consultants supplement with our own enhanced additives on the non road registered equipment which is not subject to emissions legislation to hopefully compensate for the lack of sulphur ........others may have a diffferent view & make other choices....

Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 0% was but is no longer truly 0%
    By JOHNTHOMAS in forum Kubota Buying/Pricing
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 04-04-2011, 01:26 PM
  2. Not much longer.
    By Thomas in forum Related Topics
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 10-16-2009, 09:09 AM
  3. Longer Top Link or Longer 3pt Tractor Bracket
    By stevenf in forum Owning/Operating
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 06-26-2006, 09:54 AM
  4. Replacing Drillpress AC motor with DC motor?
    By VinnieNC in forum Related Topics
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 05-18-2006, 10:29 PM
  5. Not much longer.
    By Thomas in forum Related Topics
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-30-2000, 11:32 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
© 2014 TractorByNet.com. TractorByNet is a registered trademark of IMC Digital Universe, Inc. Other trademarks on this page are the property of their respective owners.