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12152012, 07:12 PM #141
 Join Date
 Feb 2006
 Posts
 11,712
 Location
 VA
 Tractor
 JD2010, Kubota3450,2550, Mahindra 7520 w FEL w Skid Steer QC w/Tilt Tatch, & BH, BX1500
Re: Does HP matter?
This side of 40
JD2010, Kubota L3450/FEL w SK QC, L2550 w FEL
Mahindra 7520 [Pinky] /FEL w Skid Steer QC/w Tilt Tatch & BH, BX1500 [Mighty Mouse]
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12162012, 11:33 AM #142
 Join Date
 Dec 2002
 Posts
 4,352
 Location
 Foster, RI
 Tractor
 Mahindra 3016
Re: Does HP matter?
You guys are insufferable I know this. It takes all kinds for what we do on this earth from those crazy ladies who run day care to the men who control our debris. I appreciate everyone and their varied brain builds. For anyone to look down anyone's nose whether it be a mathematician, a quantum scientist or a chimney sweep either doing so to each other or otherwise aren't taking full advantage and benefit of the world around them. Thank you for your input. Its been a combination of pleasure and teeth pulling.
Last edited by arrow; 12162012 at 04:20 PM.

12162012, 01:11 PM #143
 Join Date
 Nov 2012
 Posts
 92
 Location
 House Springs,Mo.
 Tractor
 Kubota M7040
Re: Does HP matter?
More is always better than never enough go for something around 10 HP more than what you think you will need in the long run you will be glad you did !!!!

12172012, 02:31 PM #144
Re: Does HP matter?
Larry, you are pulling my legs into the mud I been in before (my thesis was about chaos though not statistically or stochastically, but, from deterministic and analytic point of view.)
Let me guess, you are an engineer and in electronics, who you have worked or been working in electronic filters too. Averaging experimental or real data and to try to simplify works of filters by trying to find some simpler analitical formulas to reduce freedom dimension in chaotic signals. Raw data is mathematically in discrete group. I was in other side, searching chaotic behaviours in deterministic, analytical, continuous groups which is more strange to even high experts of physicans and applied mathematicans. Anyway, I wasn't in stochastic deeply, but, will try to interpreate G^2/Hz (but, in a language with average Joes can understand without their running their minds which are not reserved for such things.)
G^2: Lets not talk about this much as this is a stochastic quantity which won't be easy for anyone who is totally foreigner to stochastic quantities. Lets call it Root Mean Square of a quantity which physicans called it acceleration. (mathematicans call quantities without physical meanings while physicans try to name quantities by connecting them to some real, known, things. It is not acceleration (change in velocity) actually that common know. But, physicans prefer to use acceleration for any "change of change of a quantity" even if quantity isn't length, ft.. Square root of square of a quantity is for averaging reason as wave goes up (positive) and down (negative) sides of an axis, so to find absolute values. By averaging, and hence, grouping, actually, symmetries are searched in random vibrations so to simplify/reduce the freedom dimension of chaos or seemtobe random motions. Pressumptions there such as lapping simple periodic waves over each others many times. Finding such simple symmetries or periodic waves in random waves will reduce dimensions of freedom and degree of randomness will reduce, so that with less effort (computation or measurement), data can be analysed. Anyway, lets stay with name "a stochastic quantity" about G. (I guess, the intention here is not questioning what G is, but, its dividing by frequency, Hz.)
Frequency, that's, Hz. that's, "cycle per second." It is a quantity in the same group with RPM as both are 1/time.
G, a stochastic quantity, per "cycle per time" is called somethings like "power" in stochastic field and you are asking this because it is confusing people as it is not "per time", but, "per cycle/time." As I said, it is due to Physicans who like to use "known" physical quantity names for somethings new quantites per somethings. In wave field, people prefer to use things per cycles such as energy per cycle, etc or even "per cycle per time" which is frequency so to simplify/reduce their dependent variables, so, to play with less number of equations.
Ok, this is becoming an advanced topic for average Joes who are probably asking even what the wave is. (not belittleing anyone here, but, this question is like doing an advanced math) Who can explain what the wave is to a man who has lived in a cave or a small village for his whole life, without attending even elementary school? This seemtobe easy question is actually a hard question even for high educated people. Since this is public, what I was trying to do in my posts above is to try to tell things in such a language that everybody in public can understand. (I'd like to explain what the wave, periodic wave, random wave, etc by using a simple wheel on a road, but, anyway, not here now as we are really going offtopic.)

12172012, 07:30 PM #145

12192012, 07:48 AM #146
Re: Does HP matter?
Returning back to original topic "does hp matters really",
HP you are given (in specs section of catalogue) usually is about the engine, not the pto.
Whether it is car or tractor or whatever, there is the gear chain system (gearbox) between engine and workmaker end (tyres or pto.). Gearbox decides how much of HP will be converted to Torque and how much to Speed. In cars, most of HP is converted to Speed while mostly to Torque in workmaker vehicles like tractors. (remember HP is a multiplication of Torque and Speed. So, HP is constant for an engine while its torque and speed can be changed by gear systems.) If Torques of 2 vehicles with different HPs are SAME, then, bigger HP vehicle will do the same work faster, but, won't be able to do heavier work, that's it.Last edited by nomad; 12192012 at 08:04 AM.

12192012, 09:12 AM #147
Re: Does HP matter?
".........there is only one way to find out."
"Ok, hold my beer and watch this.........."
MX5100 DIY Remotes
MX5100 Diverter install
Front Snow Plow Install
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Bushhog 306
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12192012, 09:45 AM #148
Re: Does HP matter?
If we are talking about torque and HP available at the wheel, I agree. If we are talking at the engine, I must know the gearing available. If the gearing is identical, I agree so long as "won't be able to do heavier work" means "won't be able to do heavier work than the other vehicle."
Which is bigger?: a) $100 per month since the Big Bang or b) the US National Debt.

12192012, 09:50 AM #149
Re: Does HP matter?
I got an email asking this (I believe there are some other people too who are asking same things.)
Someone wrote:
".... If Torques of 2 vehicles with different HPs are SAME, then, bigger HP vehicle will do the same work faster, but, won't be able to do heavier work, that's it.
Torques are same in given portion. HPs are different in given portion. The Bigger HP vehicle doing the work faster is implied by the HP being larger with same torque. But how is it known this vehicle cannot do heavier work? It was given equal torque and higher power..."

Maybe, because of my English (my 2nd language)  maybe, because of technical issues (2nd language of people foreigner to technical terms)  people might be confused about my sentence above and may say "how comes! bigger power must do heavier work! and Nomad, you are wrong.."
Let me make it clear.
HP is power of engine. You divide it to portions: Torque work and Speed work. Remember again Power = Torque x Speed...
Torque does the work at pto, that's, a portion of engine power is used at pto as torque is to make the work there at pto. So, through gears in gearbox, lets say 90% of engine power is used at pto, 5% is used to carry the weight of tractor and 5% is reserved for Speed of tractor. (figures i say here are just arbitrary.)
Lets say we have 2 tractors: one has 100 hp engine and the other has 110 hp engine.. But, with SAME torques at their pto's.. (this was the question in original post.) Lets say 90 hp of each of these tractors are reserved for their pto torques. Then, tractor with 100 hp engine will use 10 hp for speed while tractor with 110 hp can use 20 hp for speed  and this means, 110 hp tractor can run faster while doing the same MAXIMUM amount of work at its pto.. Pto torque is given as rated or maximum pto torque. So, since their torques, peak / rated / maximum torques, are same, even higher HP engine tractor won't make heavier work  but, tractor movement will be faster. However, if you change gearbox of higher hp tractor, then, of course, you can have bigger torque at bigger hp tractor, but, then its faster speed will reduce.
This is most important formula for the relation between power and torque:
Power (HP) = Torque (lf.ft) x Speed (Rpm) x Some Constant
(forget about this "some constant", not so important, changes depending on the units (second, hour, etc) you use..) Play with this formula, by keeping torque as constant or speed as constant, etc. my words in paragraph above will be clear then.

12192012, 09:55 AM #150
Re: Does HP matter?
Powers, HPs, in question are engine powers. Torques (same) mentioned here in first post is PTO torques. Therefore, gearing is NOT identical, gear ratios are different, hence, torques of different HPs are same at ptos. So, output power hp at pto is same since both pto have same rpm, 540, and torques are same, though their engine hps are different.
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