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  1. #11
    Platinum Member
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    Default Re: Operating loader without rear ballast

    Quote Originally Posted by boggen View Post
    tetter totter effect.

    no ballast on rear = front tires. will end up seeing more weight being placed on them.

    when there is more weight on rear. the "fulcrum point" changes. below the tetter totter errr on the tractor. further back towards rear wheels. other words. if you added a huge amount of weight on rear end of tractor. the tractor would end up doing a "wheelie" were front tires come off the ground. *been there done that* disc, and bush hog i have for the old allis chalmers tractor. will get front end to want to easily come off the ground.

    your "MANUAL" for tractor / FEL should state approx how much weight to add to rear of tractor. when doing FEL work. so the correct ratio of weight on front tires and rear tires is placed. and help prevent flipping tractor backwards doing a wheelie. or prevent doing a front wheelie.
    n.b.
    I may not be the first person to tell you this but proper punctuation (including the use of commas and periods when appropriate) *may* help you get your points across much more effectively. Reading and comprehending the two paragraphs above is somewhat tedious.

    Wrooster

  2. #12
    Elite Member
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    Feb 2011
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    2,750
    Location
    Trivoli, IL
    Tractor
    SSTT (Sideways Snake Tain Tractor) and STB (sideways train box) tractor, dirt harvester

    Default Re: Operating loader without rear ballast

    Quote Originally Posted by wrooster View Post
    n.b.
    I may not be the first person to tell you this but proper punctuation (including the use of commas and periods when appropriate) *may* help you get your points across much more effectively. Reading and comprehending the two paragraphs above is somewhat tedious.

    Wrooster
    *smiles* WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). it is me. i got into habit long ago, and doubt i will want to get out of the habit any time soon. there may be good and some bad with current habit. and willing and wanting to take both at current, and happy with the outcome. *shrugs* my priorities are different.
    Ryan

  3. #13
    Super Star Member LD1's Avatar
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    Apr 2008
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    10,609
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    Central Ohio
    Tractor
    Kubota l3400

    Default Re: Operating loader without rear ballast

    Actually, liqued ballast and/or wheel weights has the ability to put MORE force on the front axle than without anything in the tires.

    But a good combination of ballast AND a counterweight is reccomended for safe operation. I dont know the specs on your tractor, but just guessing that it is a 39HP with a FEL that can lift in the 2k lbs range. If that is the case, 1000lbs+ on the 3PH would be my reccomendation. And a good HD 6' rotary cutter fits that bill about perfectally.
    ".........there is only one way to find out."
    "Ok, hold my beer and watch this.........."


    Ford 5500 Backhoe
    Kubota L3400GST W/LA463 FEL
    2005 Dodge 3500 4x4 Diesel
    8N Rebuilt and restored
    Bushhog 306
    3 Homemade wood hauling trailers
    Dolmar 6400 84cc ported
    Sachs-Dolmar 120SI Ported
    (4) Sachs-Dolmar 116SI Ported
    Dolmar PS540
    Sachs-Dolmar 115i
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    Sachs-Dolmar 112

  4. #14
    Gold Member
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    Jun 2011
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    269

    Default Re: Operating loader without rear ballast

    ok... I am a math teacher... adding ballast to the rear does NOT change the fulcrum point. Think of a teeter-totter in the park (well they used to be there). In fact, adding ballast to rear ADDS weight to the front axle, whether using loader or not (some of the weight is distributed through the chassis).

  5. #15
    Veteran Member RaydaKub's Avatar
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    Sep 2011
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    1,576
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    Rochester, MN
    Tractor
    Kubota BX2230

    Default Re: Operating loader without rear ballast

    Quote Originally Posted by edlegault View Post
    ok... I am a math teacher... adding ballast to the rear does NOT change the fulcrum point. Think of a teeter-totter in the park (well they used to be there). In fact, adding ballast to rear ADDS weight to the front axle, whether using loader or not (some of the weight is distributed through the chassis).
    Umm, you gotta get outta your books. If you add just enough to balance your loader (and the load), then yeah, it rocks on the front axle. We're talking about adding way more than that. You add enough weight to the rear end (and that means BEHIND the rear axle), you do a wheelie. Hunt around for a bit for an excellent explanation from joshuabardwell. Best one I've ever read.

  6. #16
    Super Star Member k0ua's Avatar
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    Branson, Mo.
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    Kioti DK35se Hydrostat

    Default Re: Operating loader without rear ballast

    There are two fulcrum points. The front axle and the rear axle.. when you add weight to the system behind the rear axle it unloads the front axle. Here is an example.. put 10,000 pound on the 3 point. What would happen? The front of the tractor would go up in the air. When you add weight in front of the front axle it unloads the rear axle.. I have Personally done it to the point the rear tires come off of the ground and it is not fun. The ideal situation is ballasted so that the front tires stay on the ground and the rear tires stay on the ground, and the front axle is not overloaded (which is easy to do because of its smaller size).

    James K0UA
    James KUA

    Kioti DK35se hydrostat with 2 QA buckets, 48 inch. King Kutter Rotary Cutter. 750 lbs ballast box. Loaded tires, Construction Attachments SSQA Lightweight Pallet forks. EA 50 inch single lid "wicked" Grapple. Satisfied Everlast PA160 welder owner How to add a link to a post . Best way to search TBN


  7. #17
    Super Star Member LD1's Avatar
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    Central Ohio
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    Kubota l3400

    Default Re: Operating loader without rear ballast

    Uh, yea, what them two said

    Two fulcrum points is spot on.

    Adding weight in the form of liquid tire ballast OR wheel weights adds NOTHING to the front. ONLY the rear. But it also does NOT take any weight off the front which is the goal with a counterweight.

    There IS the possibility to put MORE weight over the front with ballast. Best way to explain it is by the following example:

    Lets say the tractor weighs 3000lbs, and the loader can only lift 1000lbs before the rear comes up into the air. Thats 4000lbs total and ONLY over the front axle.

    Now lets add 500lbs of ballast to the tires. The tractor now weighs 3500#. And with the added ballast, you can lift more in the loader before the rears come into the air. Lets say it can now lift 1500#. Now the total weight is 5000# over ONLY the front wheels.

    Thats the idea of having something BEHIND the rear axle sufficient enough to change the fulcrum point to the rear axle. Now THAT weight is taking weight OFF the front axle because it is behind the rear axle. But the point being that the weight is heavy enough to to shift that fulcrum point. Cause if you dont add enough, and the loader can still make the rear end come up, all that weight you added is NOW over the front axle plus whatever additional weight you can lift in the loader vs without to get to that tipping point.
    ".........there is only one way to find out."
    "Ok, hold my beer and watch this.........."


    Ford 5500 Backhoe
    Kubota L3400GST W/LA463 FEL
    2005 Dodge 3500 4x4 Diesel
    8N Rebuilt and restored
    Bushhog 306
    3 Homemade wood hauling trailers
    Dolmar 6400 84cc ported
    Sachs-Dolmar 120SI Ported
    (4) Sachs-Dolmar 116SI Ported
    Dolmar PS540
    Sachs-Dolmar 115i
    Sachs-Dolmar 117
    Sachs-Dolmar 112

  8. #18
    Elite Member
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    Feb 2011
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    Trivoli, IL
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    SSTT (Sideways Snake Tain Tractor) and STB (sideways train box) tractor, dirt harvester

    Default Re: Operating loader without rear ballast

    picture, to go along with folks comments above.

    -ballast-png

    =========
    adding fluid to rear tires, or adding rear wheel weights. i do not see how could add more weight to front tires.
    if anything front tires, would see total tractor weight (minus) not counting fluid in rear tires and/or rear wheel weights.
    other words, tractor would still trying to do a front wheelie. but rear tires being held down, by fluid in rear tires and/or rear wheel weights. ok bad statement, fluid in rear tires, and/or rear wheel weight. is adding weight to the "rear fulcrum" and in that not adding any weight that is trying to be balanced out. errr that is completely not correct either. yikes it has been way to long since being in school. i done forgot the "depends" or the "except" words being repeatedly being said...

    =========
    adding rear weight behind the rear axle.
    depends on how far the weight is placed behind the rear axle. and how much the weight actually weighs. and the resulting effect it has on reducing weight on front tires.

    =========
    ok, i give.
    Ryan

  9. #19
    Super Star Member k0ua's Avatar
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    Branson, Mo.
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    Kioti DK35se Hydrostat

    Default Re: Operating loader without rear ballast

    Adding weight behind the rear axle acts as a lever arm.
    Take a specified weight, the further it is behind the rear axle, it will act to pry the front end off of the ground in relationship to the distance it is placed behind the rear axle.
    Last edited by k0ua; 12-14-2012 at 05:55 PM.
    James KUA

    Kioti DK35se hydrostat with 2 QA buckets, 48 inch. King Kutter Rotary Cutter. 750 lbs ballast box. Loaded tires, Construction Attachments SSQA Lightweight Pallet forks. EA 50 inch single lid "wicked" Grapple. Satisfied Everlast PA160 welder owner How to add a link to a post . Best way to search TBN


  10. #20
    Bronze Member
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    Sep 2012
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    Location
    Southwick,MA
    Tractor
    Pasquali 993 w/FEL, Economy2414 w/FEL

    Default Re: Operating loader without rear ballast

    I tried using my machine, a Pasquali 993 w/FEL with out the ballast box just for a tractor parade, this past summer. Almost had to go home & change my shorts while pulling off the trailer! FEL acted like a wheelie-bar, rear-end came up, quick, fast & in a hurry. Articulating machines don't steer with one set of axles in the air! Had to keep the bucket 2" off the ground during the parade, every bump jolted the rear into the air. Learned my lesson for next year's parade.

    -0716121755a-jpg

    Shadow
    Growing older is... MANDATORY, Growing up is... OPTIONAL

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