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  1. #11
    Veteran Member
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    Kubota B3200, Ford NAA, IH 454D, Case 1845C

    Default Re: Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_Miller View Post
    In general diesel has three times the torque vs gas per liter of displacement.

    Steve
    How do you figure that? I have a 460 in my F-250 that has 410lb-ft of torque, the 7.3L of the same vintage was under 400lb-ft. Even when you go up as far as the 7.3L powerstroke in the Superduty, which was 525lb-ft as I recall, it's still no where near 3 times the torque.
    Kubota B3200
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  2. #12
    Gold Member Buckgnarly's Avatar
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    West topsham VT
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    Kioti DS3510

    Default Re: Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Verticaltrx View Post
    How do you figure that? I have a 460 in my F-250 that has 410lb-ft of torque, the 7.3L of the same vintage was under 400lb-ft. Even when you go up as far as the 7.3L powerstroke in the Superduty, which was 525lb-ft as I recall, it's still no where near 3 times the torque.
    What RPMS did the peak torque occur? That's what really matters.

  3. #13
    Elite Member Bob77064's Avatar
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    KY @ TN line
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    2011 LS R3039

    Default Re: Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?

    If you think back to the early 70's when the catalytic converters came out and all the problems they had for a while. The new emissions on the diesels are getting better and will continue to improve.

  4. #14
    Elite Member MIKE R's Avatar
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    PRINCE TWP, ONTARIO
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    MASSEY 1020, CASE SC, FARMALL F12 and F20

    Default Re: Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?

    A gas engine will never meet the power and reliably of a diesel engine. As a diesel engine gets loaded up the harder it hits and the more power it creates where a gas engine just bog out and dies. There is a reason why people went to diesel engines in heavy equipment. To use the same engine that a car uses in a tractor the valve timing will need to be adjusted as to make the engine have the torque needed in farm equipment.

    If California (where most of the rules are made) would break off the main land and fall into the ocean we would be so much better not having to meet all the stupid ideas of people who have never even seen a tractor.
    "If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy" - Red Green

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  5. #15
    Elite Member WilliamBos's Avatar
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    Innisfil, Ontario, Canada
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    MF 1635 12x12 Powershuttle

    Default Re: Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?

    Quote Originally Posted by MIKE R View Post
    A gas engine will never meet the power and reliably of a diesel engine. As a diesel engine gets loaded up the harder it hits and the more power it creates where a gas engine just bog out and dies. There is a reason why people went to diesel engines in heavy equipment. To use the same engine that a car uses in a tractor the valve timing will need to be adjusted as to make the engine have the torque needed in farm equipment.

    If California (where most of the rules are made) would break off the main land and fall into the ocean we would be so much better not having to meet all the stupid ideas of people who have never even seen a tractor.
    I agree, the EPA has gone to the extreme here. I hope they go bankrupt when Kommiefornia does. And we need to stop following them, after all, they have ZERO clout or say up here in Canada.
    Thanks,

    Will


    I do not care if someone's net nanny is watching!! You need to stop...

  6. #16
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    Kubota B3200, Ford NAA, IH 454D, Case 1845C

    Default Re: Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buckgnarly View Post
    What RPMS did the peak torque occur? That's what really matters.
    I don't recall exactly, but I think the EFI 460 builds peak torque around 2000rpms. I know it's still pulling hard down to 1000rpms, it has a pretty flat and broad power curve much like a diesel.
    Kubota B3200
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  7. #17
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    Default Re: Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyal View Post
    I think it depends on just ow efficient they can make gas engines now. The advantages of diesel are starting to be wiped away with all of the regulations. It use to be much cheaper than gas and a lot more fuel efficient. But we are seeing it with cars (not trucks) here in the states, diesels just don't make sense. The added cost of the engine and the fuel offset any fuel savings. With CVT's starting to become more common in cars gas engines can be designed to run at specific RPM ranges vs the wide range they are designed for now. That should help narrow the over all cost gap between diesel and gas even further.
    Actually, diesel efficiency is being eroded by technology improvements in gas engine tech. Compression fired direct injected gas engines are turning the old paradigms on their head! Better fuel use, higher torque, higher hp, etc etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_Miller View Post
    In general diesel has three times the torque vs gas per liter of displacement, more energy from the fuel per liter, less HP, 15-20% more Co2 emissions and lower rpm to get the torque, meaning less wear and tear on the engine. My two cents worth, just for the record we own a Jetta TDI wagon, had it for 6.5 years, 250,000 kms and no major problems. Wife's car and she is willing to keep it forever if possible. It gets over a 1000kms per tank on average even with a bit of jigging around. Diesel is in just about every station around here. I think it would take quite a learning curve to use a gas tractor in place of a diesel.

    Steve
    Not so. I drive a gas ford and a diesel ford. The difference is the gas starts easier in the winter and the diesel uses less fuel. Other than that, operating characteristics are essentially identical.

  8. #18
    Elite Member
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    Murray, KY
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    265 MF / JD 310B Backhoe

    Default Re: Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?

    With new sources of gas like CNG, etc for over the road trucks, buses, etc gas seems to be making a come back.

    EPA does not like dirty engines and may kill the diesel's edge in the end.

    If diesel fuel continues to cost 25% more than gas and diesel engines continue to cost 200%+ more than gas engines then gas ownership/usage may make to the most financial sense.

    Gas vs Diesel today is more of an 'emotional' issue than anything else in the typical CUT usage pattern.

    As a kid in the spring we could put 100 hours some weeks on a 30-40 HP engine and it would last years running with its ears pinned back. Today a lot of us do not put 100 hours a year on a tractor.

    In PU trucks in can get even worse in a practical sense. Some do need diesels for sure but not when they are only driven empty as a daily driver.

    Diesels will be around for a long time but for mowing three acres 20 times a year it may not make $$$ sense in many cases.

  9. #19
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    New Holland TC40D

    Default Re: Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?

    My old Farmall A made the same power as the kubota B8200 I had at the time. Same HP, very similar torque curve. The Farmall was a 1941...

    Big different, is the the Farmall was 113ci, while the Kubota was 59ci. And, the Farmall used more fuel. But, it had plenty of grunt...

    Quote Originally Posted by MIKE R View Post
    A gas engine will never meet the power and reliably of a diesel engine.
    RobertN in Shingle Springs Calif

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?

    Allis Chalmers "G" Electric Cultivating and Seeding Tractor Conversion Project

    Quote Originally Posted by MBTRAC View Post
    More chance of an electic rechargeable CUT than gas displacing diesel with Tier 4 intro ............
    RobertN in Shingle Springs Calif

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