Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?

[fieldman12]

Years ago they tried the gas motors in tractors and they just did not handle the dirty conditions near as well as a Diesel engine. They often had issues with the carbs,points and so on. I will say the gap between todays gas motors and diesel engines have narrowed a bunch but I still think for now as far as tractors and excavating goes a gas cannot yet compete especially in bigger equipment.

 

[3930dave]

Even a previous generation VW tdi is pretty impressive with an Auto trani. Maybe not compared to a hot small block V8 gas motor in a mid-sized car, but few people use those as daily drivers anymore.

Personally, if I was buying new, I'd spec stick in a car, but I don't think the avg consumer would find anything to complain about engine/trani wise in a VW diesel/auto combo.

In fact, a lot of years ago (pre tdi) a good friend of mine got the worst speeding ticket he ever had, test driving a VW diesel. A small vehicle that doesn't need to rev the snot out of the motor can be deceptively quick.

I remember one of the Car and Driver old timers (Bedard I think) writing years ago about vehicles that can seduce you into flying down the road. One example was a VW pickup diesel (of all things) - he kept hitting the rev limiter in top gear, while crossing the Mid West. OK, so he wasn't going 220 mph, but was probably still well into "Do Not Pass Go, Go Directly to Jail" speeds.

If I lived in the SouthWest (access to rust free older vehicles), and had a bit more in the way of mechanical skills, I might be tempted to re-power older (pre-EPA) vehicles with industrial diesel engines. There is a % of the population that I'd have no trouble selling those to.

Rgds, D.

 

[boggen]

gas vs diesel tractor engines. in the SCUT (sub compact utility tractors) may look like riding lawn mowers on steroids. and CUTS (compact utility tractors), along with skid steers. i gotta scratch my head.

while yes fuel consumption is a big thing. but i am more concerned. how many hours i can go without a refill. it takes more time at least for me, to fuel things, or shuttle cans back and forth, to fill up small size tractors or skid steer. honestly, if i can get a couple more hours of work in. which could be difference of working tractor 1/2 day and needing a refill vs, working tractor a full day before refill. i would more likely choose something that could work for a longer period of time. if it costs a few bucks more per gallon of fuel big deal. ya at end of year i could do up a spread sheet and plug in receipts for fuel for a SCUT or CUT or skid steer. but honestly. ya big number might come up say 1000 bucks, compared to say if i used a different fuel. but how much time would be wasted. filling up and shuttle cans of fuel back and forth.

gas vs diesel. if i can get extra work done with same amount of volume of fuel with diesel vs gas. i am more likely go with diesel. less refills = less cost and less time refilling. more so many times, when labor might be considered 50% or more total cost of building something / doing something.

 

[3930dave]

gas vs diesel tractor engines. in the SCUT (sub compact utility tractors) may look like riding lawn mowers on steroids. and CUTS (compact utility tractors), along with skid steers. i gotta scratch my head.

while yes fuel consumption is a big thing. but i am more concerned. how many hours i can go without a refill. it takes more time at least for me, to fuel things, or shuttle cans back and forth, to fill up small size tractors or skid steer. honestly, if i can get a couple more hours of work in. which could be difference of working tractor 1/2 day and needing a refill vs, working tractor a full day before refill. i would more likely choose something that could work for a longer period of time. if it costs a few bucks more per gallon of fuel big deal. ya at end of year i could do up a spread sheet and plug in receipts for fuel for a SCUT or CUT or skid steer. but honestly. ya big number might come up say 1000 bucks, compared to say if i used a different fuel. but how much time would be wasted. filling up and shuttle cans of fuel back and forth.

gas vs diesel. if i can get extra work done with same amount of volume of fuel with diesel vs gas. i am more likely go with diesel. less refills = less cost and less time refilling. more so many times, when labor might be considered 50% or more total cost of building something / doing something.

Good point Ryan - us hobby guys putting around looking for a project to do with our tractors can forget about this time factor.

On a big operation, could make the difference between needing one fuel truck, or two.

Rgds, D.

 

[MHarryE]

Diesels with autos are anything but doggie. I had a rental Audi A6 with a 3.0 liter turbo diesel that accelerated like somebody lit its tail on fire and had the highest top end of any rental car I ever had - 155 mph tire limited, and a legal speed in Germany where I was able to try it out. Okay, I did get passed while driving at that speed but by a couple Porsches that were in a real hurry. But this is a tractor forum. Dig up explanations of the Otto cycle (gasoline) vs. Diesel cycle. Read the explanation of how the Otto cycle has heat added at a constant volume vs. then Diesel cycle having heat added at a constant pressure. In the analysis is the explanation why a diesel engine makes for a good pulling engine. Not to say that with developments of the future a gas engine may be developed because with using precise fuel/air control, who knows. Di-lithium crystals powering the warp drive?

 

[crazyal]

I'm thinking about getting a small to mid size SUV and the number of companies that sell diesels in the US is pretty small. With the high upfront cost and the higher price of diesel (with taxes) it makes it very hard to justify the cost. On top of that most makers think that they need to put a large diesel into them. I really don't need twin turbos.

 

[timbatrader]

In New Zealand diesel is cheaper than petrol (gas in American speak) diesel about NZ$1.50 verse’s petrol at NZ$2.00 per liter most cars are Japanese sourced petrol for cars but almost all SUV’s & Utes (lightweight pickups) are diesel I drive a Toyota Landcruiser 79 series with a 4.5 liter turbo diesel a great vehicle. Toyota have tried to sell their FJ Landcruiser here which was designed for the American market so only comes with a 4.2 liter V6 petrol it was a flop no one will buy a petrol SUV here

 

[Baby Grand]

Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?
Not unless you like driving 10 or 20 gallons of gas home from the pump.
The less gas I have to store around here the more comfortably I sleep.
The volume of fuel consumed to do a given job should put the price difference in perspective.
It seems like I use half as much diesel as I do gas to cut the lawn.

 

[3930dave]

In New Zealand diesel is cheaper than petrol (gas in American speak) diesel about NZ$1.50 verseç—´ petrol at NZ$2.00 per liter most cars are Japanese sourced petrol for cars but almost all SUVç—´ & Utes (lightweight pickups) are diesel I drive a Toyota Landcruiser 79 series with a 4.5 liter turbo diesel a great vehicle. Toyota have tried to sell their FJ Landcruiser here which was designed for the American market so only comes with a 4.2 liter V6 petrol it was a flop no one will buy a petrol SUV here

TT - greetings from Canada, Eh !

I'm envious of you - Toyota has not offered diesel trucks (and never cars, in my liftetime) here in a long time.

A couple of questions, if I may:

What is the factory tow rating on your '79 with this diesel ?

What transmission do you have ?

What is your typical mileage (mpg or L/100 km) ?

Is it NZ taxes that cause most/all of the price difference between your petrol and diesel ?

Our gas is not cheap here, but you are a good 30% over Canadian prices. Toyota builds a solid truck, but with that gas 4.2, I can see why it didn't sell in NZ, that would be very hard on the wallet.

Good example of expensive fuel driving diesel use up.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

I'm thinking about getting a small to mid size SUV and the number of companies that sell diesels in the US is pretty small. With the high upfront cost and the higher price of diesel (with taxes) it makes it very hard to justify the cost. On top of that most makers think that they need to put a large diesel into them. I really don't need twin turbos.

I don't like turbos from a reliability standpoint, but I live with one on my diesel. For the cost of a turbo, I get increased efficiency in a diesel. :thumbsup:

Until recently, you mostly only saw turbo gas motors in sports (/oriented) cars here. Unless the owner was a total idiot, these cars typically saw regular oil changes.

As a group, I'd say trucks get beat on/worked harder/neglected more than sports cars. It will be interesting to see how these new generation gas truck turbos stand up to real world abuse.

Rgds, D.