Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?

[AJ197816134]

The Tier 4 Scare is out there.. But here is my 2 cents on this. DPF and Regeneration is going to be something we are stuck with... However if you look at this point I feel tier 4 other than replacement cost is effective.
You need an engine to burn clean and hot.... Well if you run your diesel over 1800 RPMs you should have no issues, heat is a friend of the DPF> I believe this is why you see some mfg's coming up with smaller turbo style motors, because the engine will run hotter and burn cleaner. On fire apparatus the big scare was DEF fluid, believe it or not in this application the DEF helped the apparatus, they had LESS regen cycles, they worked to eliminate drag on the belt/accessory drive, reduced drag on engines some diesels now have a factory fill of 10w30 HDEO or 5w40
When they were able to work through the revision and criteria of the tier 4 they were able to open the engines back up, provide better fuel consumption numbers and then bring DEF in to cleanse the system per say..
Pick up owners with diesels don't operate or use them to what they are meant to do. I see guys that just drive and run around in them with more problems than those who work their trucks harder, be it towing or hauling. Short trip, incomplete warm up cycles and more lead to problems with ANY regeneration system...
IS there more cost?> YES but the fact of a quieter running, cleaner burning engine is a gain. I love the sounds of the old Detroit 6V 8V engines but were they really good for the environment? I am no tree hugger but I do believe in preserving or placing less impact on what we have now so we have more to enjoy later.
Tier 4 in my recent tractor purchase did not scare me, what scared me was how some companies have you STOP and regen and others you can work through

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

Just the fact gassers now run fuel injection and more reliable ignition components means a lot. Seems like the older gas engines always had some sort of miss and poor air/fuel ratio mixtures which made them harder to tolerate than the even the engine oil burning diesels made after the hours racked up on them. It's rare to have a diesel misfire in my experience, especially on an inconsistent basis like you might see with gas engines.

 

[CADplans]

I do not believe anyone has seen a 30, or 40, or 50 HP gasoline tractor engine,,,, for 2017.
The emissions controls on such an engine might be worse than a Tier 4 diesel,,, ??

 

[buickanddeere]

I do not believe anyone has seen a 30, or 40, or 50 HP gasoline tractor engine,,,, for 2017.
The emissions controls on such an engine might be worse than a Tier 4 diesel,,, ??

Think tier V emission regulations, not Tier IV. Kubota manufactures a drop in spark ignition engine for applications where the Tier IV diesels do not fare well.
Outside of Canada and the US gasoline is taxed as a luxury which makes diesel about 2/3 to 3/4 the price of gasoline. Many nations are also very lax on diesel emissions regulations. Of course manufactures will make a diesel work somehow at the cost of upfront price and long term service costs because the customer will purchase the diesel.
A lot of people are surprised when told that the US is not the only market that manufactures carter to and sell to.

 

[buickanddeere]

I do not believe anyone has seen a 30, or 40, or 50 HP gasoline tractor engine,,,, for 2017.
The emissions controls on such an engine might be worse than a Tier 4 diesel,,, ??

Why is most of the off road equipment such as outboards, airplanes, ATV's, chainsaws, lawn equipment , fork lifts, manlifts, concrete mixers, small generators gasoline instead of diesel ?

 

[r8nger]

I'm sitting here with a dodge 5500 heavy equipment service truck that has 75k on it now, it has had two complete exhaust systems put on it already, and now the exhaust manifold gaskets blew out. I think it's clogged again and ate the turbo. This truck sees a lot of 1100 rpm pto air compressor/ crane time. It looks like I'm rolling coal everywhere I go, sporting this epa greeny sticker on the hood. Oh ya, to top it off, best mpg is like 8-9. It should be around 16. What are these people thinking?i do pipeline work, and when they hold the Monday morning safety showdown, about 90% of the guys gave all that crap deleted, just so they can travel reliably.

 

[Snowback]

Just get you a Mahindra and enjoy your diesel! No DPF and associated operations to worry about at all.

Some info here: Introducing our Tier IV "mCRD Technology" | Mahindra

Short video here:

 

[3930dave]

I'm sitting here with a dodge 5500 heavy equipment service truck that has 75k on it now, it has had two complete exhaust systems put on it already, and now the exhaust manifold gaskets blew out. I think it's clogged again and ate the turbo. This truck sees a lot of 1100 rpm pto air compressor/ crane time. It looks like I'm rolling coal everywhere I go, sporting this epa greeny sticker on the hood. Oh ya, to top it off, best mpg is like 8-9. It should be around 16. What are these people thinking?i do pipeline work, and when they hold the Monday morning safety showdown, about 90% of the guys gave all that crap deleted, just so they can travel reliably.

Talked with a guy recently who just quit driving highway tractors. A bit younger than me, he had been at it for a while. He said "My old Cummins, I put 600,000 miles on it, and it only left me on the side of the road once. My last Cummins, for the first 3 or 4 months, it rarely got out of the service shop. After that, I had enough of driving truck".

(Not picking on Cummins, it's been a mess in general out there).

These regs work great....... when you are sitting in a govt department with unlimited budgets, no deadlines, no payroll that you need to generate income for, and no performance penalties to worry about paying....

Rgds, Dave.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Why is most of the off road equipment such as outboards, airplanes, ATV's, chainsaws, lawn equipment , fork lifts, manlifts, concrete mixers, small generators gasoline instead of diesel ?

A lot of forklifts and man-lifts run on diesel as do skid steers.

With the exception of airplanes, the engines in the vehicles you mention are cheap and relatively light weight.

Diesels have heavier parts because of the higher pressures and temperatures experienced by the components. Special coatings on the piston crown reduce the oxidation caused by high gas temperatures. All this adds up to higher costs and weight. NASA had a program to develop a light weight diesel aircraft engine as well as a cheap tubofan) for light aircraft in the late 1990's and I believe it was completed. As far as I know, no engine manufacturer has taken the technology and utilized it in a commercial venture yet.

 

[buickanddeere]

With the successful introduction and use of direct injection gasoline engines . The gap has been closed between gas vs diesels in light and medium duty applications.
The days of a pig of a gasser with points, carburetor and leaded fuel are gone. The days of plain simple reliable low cost new diesels are also past.