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  1. #1
    Platinum Member
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    May 2011
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    765
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    Trent Hills, ON
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    Kioti DK40SE HST

    Default Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?

    Does it make some sense to go back to a gasoline engine for CUT's? It seems to me that a small 4 cyl car engine these days can run for 3000-4000 hours with out too many issues, and one detuned for tractor use should go longer. I think a gas engine even with fuel injection is much cheaper to build than a tier 4 diesel as there are lots of $11,000 new cars.
    Any problems with just changing the gearing of the tractors to use an engine that runs a bit higher rpms?
    2011 DK40SE HST

  2. #2
    Veteran Member bigtiller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    1,944
    Location
    central Iowa
    Tractor
    JD 2720

    Default Re: Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?

    I want lower RPM's for less noise and more torque for PTO work, so it's diesel for ever for me.
    HAVE FUN

    Life is easier when you plow around the stumps.


    2720

  3. #3
    Veteran Member
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    Dec 2009
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    1,895
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    S. W. Virginia
    Tractor
    Kubota B3200, Ford NAA, IH 454D, Case 1845C

    Default Re: Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigtiller View Post
    I want lower RPM's for less noise and more torque for PTO work, so it's diesel for ever for me.
    You can get that in a gas engine tractor, just not in a compact enough package for most sub-compact/compact utility platforms. My Ford NAA has a 134" 4-cylinder that puts out 110lb-ft of torque and 31 PTO hp at 2000rpm or less. Most field work is done at 1500-1700rpms. Turning that slow even a gas engine can have quite a bit of life in it. It's also the quietest tractor we own, by far.

    Unless this tier-4 thing turns into an absolute disaster, I doubt you'll see any gas powered tractors in the future. With that said, more and more people are opting back to gas trucks with what the EPA has done to the diesels.
    Kubota B3200
    Ford NAA Jubilee
    International 454D
    Case 1845C skid steer
    JD 265

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Jerry/MT's Avatar
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    Feb 2008
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    2,055
    Location
    Western Montana
    Tractor
    New Holland TD95D, Ford 4610 & Ferguson TO-30

    Default Re: Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyIan View Post
    Does it make some sense to go back to a gasoline engine for CUT's? It seems to me that a small 4 cyl car engine these days can run for 3000-4000 hours with out too many issues, and one detuned for tractor use should go longer. I think a gas engine even with fuel injection is much cheaper to build than a tier 4 diesel as there are lots of $11,000 new cars.
    Any problems with just changing the gearing of the tractors to use an engine that runs a bit higher rpms?
    You still won't get the fuel economy inherent in the diesel cycle but I don't disagree that gassers might be competitive especially given the reliability of the fuel systems and the ignition systems of the modern SI engines. CaseNH claims that they actually improve the Tier 4 diesel engine BSFC with the DEF injection because they can run at max gas temperatures for high thermal efficiency (and thus low BSFC) and treat the exhaust gases to satisfy the EPA. It ain't cheap and it adds more complexity but there is an improvement in fuel burn to offset the cost of DEF system. At least that's what the fine print says!

  5. #5
    Elite Member
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    Jan 2010
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    2,627
    Location
    Northern, IL
    Tractor
    Branson 2400H

    Default Re: Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?

    Since most CUT's are of European/Asian design and Diesel is far more prevelant in Europe & Asia I doubt you will see gas engines any time soon. Deere could be the exception since they have gas engines in some of their x series that are 25 HP or more today.

    Agree for cold weather operation and average home owner gas is much friendlier since their are gas stations on every corner but in some areas good diesel is hard to find.
    Artificial Intelligence will never overcome natural stupidity.

    Branson 2400H MMM & FEL

    JD 112

    BX1850 gone but not forgotten

  6. #6
    Super Member crazyal's Avatar
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    Dec 2003
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    5,925
    Location
    Northern Vermont

    Default Re: Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?

    I think it depends on just ow efficient they can make gas engines now. The advantages of diesel are starting to be wiped away with all of the regulations. It use to be much cheaper than gas and a lot more fuel efficient. But we are seeing it with cars (not trucks) here in the states, diesels just don't make sense. The added cost of the engine and the fuel offset any fuel savings. With CVT's starting to become more common in cars gas engines can be designed to run at specific RPM ranges vs the wide range they are designed for now. That should help narrow the over all cost gap between diesel and gas even further.
    Kubota L4240,Case 580K backhoe, Case 450 Dozer

  7. #7
    Elite Member WilliamBos's Avatar
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    May 2004
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    4,512
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    Innisfil, Ontario, Canada
    Tractor
    MF 1635 12x12 Powershuttle

    Default Re: Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?

    Gas tractors will not be anywhere as efficient as a diesel tractor. They never have been, and never will be. BTDT.

    The AGCO/CNH SCR route is the most efficient way of doing things.
    Thanks,

    Will


    I do not care if someone's net nanny is watching!! You need to stop...

  8. #8
    Platinum Member
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    Feb 2011
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    828
    Tractor
    Furakawa 351

    Default Re: Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?

    Having a particulate filter in an engine that works is not a problem it will self clean from just the heat doing its work. The only carbon it will absorb will be when cold or when it is accelerating hard. I have a 2008 GMC duramax it works going up the mountains and regenerates very few times. With SCR they can increase the fuel efficiency by a lot more than enough to cover the cost of the Def. Without the EPA regulations we would not have the electronic controls and efficiency we have now.
    People blabber about the new fuel they forget about the number of burnt valves and damaged turbos we had caused by the sulphur. Memories are great, and when fuel was cheap who cared abut the efficiency. The regulations started in 1970, for the diesels.
    Just a thought!

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Steve_Miller's Avatar
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    Mar 2004
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    1,246
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Tractor
    2006 Kioti CK30HST

    Default Re: Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?

    In general diesel has three times the torque vs gas per liter of displacement, more energy from the fuel per liter, less HP, 15-20% more Co2 emissions and lower rpm to get the torque, meaning less wear and tear on the engine. My two cents worth, just for the record we own a Jetta TDI wagon, had it for 6.5 years, 250,000 kms and no major problems. Wife's car and she is willing to keep it forever if possible. It gets over a 1000kms per tank on average even with a bit of jigging around. Diesel is in just about every station around here. I think it would take quite a learning curve to use a gas tractor in place of a diesel.

    Steve

  10. #10
    Gold Member
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    Mar 2012
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    NSW Australia
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    Tractors16-600hp Farm & Earthmoving Equip, Trucks etc.

    Default Re: Will Tier 4 lead to gas tractors again?

    More chance of an electic rechargeable CUT than gas displacing diesel with Tier 4 intro ............

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