Tipped my BX25 FEL & BH on its side - what precautions to take before starting engine

[RaydaKub]

Re: Tipped my BX25 FEL & BH on its side - what precautions to take before starting en

That is incorrect. Sorry.
http://www.nstmop.psu.edu/tasksheets/4.12 Tractor Stability.pdf

That is an interesting article, a lot of common sense in it. But other than putting in that first drawing of a narrow front end and a wide front end tractor, they don't explain anything about it. Quite frankly, I disagree with that drawing. The front end of a wide front tractor doesn't add an ounce of resistance to turning over in the initial tilt. It is free to pivot 10-15 degrees (wild guess) either direction from the tractor body itself. Add this to the actual slope of the hillside and it doesn't become an effective agent against a roll over until 35-45 degrees and by that time, you're already going over. Because of the pivot being dead center of the tractor, one could even argue that a narrow front end tractor is better because the outside of the downhill-side tire is further downhill than the pivot point on the wide front.

 

[vtsnowedin]

Re: Tipped my BX25 FEL & BH on its side - what precautions to take before starting en

Because the rear axle is fixed the tractor body doesn't tip toward the hole the front wheel dropped into which is the reason the front axle is made to pivot. The load is split between both tires and reacts up through the pivot point. Their drawing is correct and a wide front end does move the line of the foot print out so a steeper slope is required to flip the tractor. But perhaps more importantly the wide front end is much more stable when going around a curve. That is why they don't make narrow front end tractors anymore. They are an unnecessary liability.
But believe what you wish.

 

[RaydaKub]

Re: Tipped my BX25 FEL & BH on its side - what precautions to take before starting en

Because the rear axle is fixed the tractor body doesn't tip toward the hole the front wheel dropped into which is the reason the front axle is made to pivot. The load is split between both tires and reacts up through the pivot point.

Exactly my point. If the front axle drops into a hole, the tractor body doesn't tip more (it will drop vertically by 1/2 the depth of the hole, but not sideways). So if the rear wheel drops into the hole, why do you think the front axle is going to help prevent a roll over? It is isolated from the tilt of the tractor by the pivot and the tractor tips the full amount that the rear wheel dropped into the hole. Up until you hit the limit stops of the pivot the component of the force preventing a roll is 0 by definition. Once you hit the stop, then it certainly provides more stability. However by the time that happens, you'll be looking for those shorts.

And in my previous comment, the difference between the pivot and a narrow front end is miniscule at best. And I forgot that at least on my dad's JD-A, the narrow front wheels had some kind of a geared rocking system so that there could be a difference in height of the wheels and still keep them both on the ground, which negates the distance between the tire and a wide front pivot.

 

[john_bud]

EDIT: and if........God forbid, I should ever roll my tractor..........the first order of business is to right the tractor, second, is pull the glow plugs to get the oil out of the cylinders by turning the engine over by hand at first. I personally won't wait 24 hours, then attempt to turn with the starter.............the oil may have drained down, but it just ain't worth the risk. The clearance between the piston, and the valves is about the thickness of a human hair, doesn't take much oil to fill an area that small and bend the valves or rod.

You do realize the time it took for any oil to get in is about the time it taked the oil to go out,right? It's the same pathway...

The 24-48 hours is more to give the operator time to put on clean skivies and regain courage to resume operations. Most places will also want a written incident report and a drug test before allowing the operator back in the seat. While some damage could occur from attempting to restart, most damage happens from the engine hydrolocking WHILE RUNNING. Thats bad, but if the rings are tight, the oil intrusion can be slow enough that it is burnt. That's WORSE as it causes engine runaway and turning the key won't stop it! The engine will usually suffer catastrophic damage from over speed and no oil to the bearings.

If you go over, kill the engine first. If it starts to runaway, stuffing a shirt down the air inlet may stop it. You need to do something to block air from the cylinders.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Re: Tipped my BX25 FEL & BH on its side - what precautions to take before starting en

Exactly my point. If the front axle drops into a hole, the tractor body doesn't tip more (it will drop vertically by 1/2 the depth of the hole, but not sideways). So if the rear wheel drops into the hole, why do you think the front axle is going to help prevent a roll over? It is isolated from the tilt of the tractor by the pivot and the tractor tips the full amount that the rear wheel dropped into the hole. Up until you hit the limit stops of the pivot the component of the force preventing a roll is 0 by definition. Once you hit the stop, then it certainly provides more stability. However by the time that happens, you'll be looking for those shorts.

I have to disagree Ray, the front axle doesnt pivot that much and will start providing force against the roll way before you go over. The tractor would need to exceed 45 degree from a dead stop to begin a roll. My tractors are limited to about 2-3 inches of front tire dip before the front axles hit the stop. Unless you are alread operating on a slope close to tip point the front will provide support to prevent roll over. Tricycle tractors have none which is why 3 wheel ATV were outlawed. Those things were always ready to tip even setting still. I have had both my tractors setting on 2 wheels many times slant crossing small ditches, one front and one rear on opposite sides. If you have enough momentum, it will most times carry you on thru, but sometimes differential lock will get you out and sometimes had to use the FEL to push back. No way was it in any danger of tipping over and it was setting on the front axle lock. It is amazing how the tractor will just set level on two wheels.
If you still think tricycle front ends are as stable as wide front end, buy your self a couple of toy tractors and measure the pull over force to tip a tricycle versus a wide front. They are built similar to real tractors as the wide front swivels maybe more so than a real tractor but will metal bind at some point putting pressure on the front axle toward the roll, then off course when that happens you not only have the force of the inside roll tire but then also the weight of the outside tire to help hold you down from tipping. This is another reason for loading the front tires on your tractor if you want stability.

 

[wawajake]

Re: Tipped my BX25 FEL & BH on its side - what precautions to take before starting en

Someone on this thread asked if I had pictures of my tractor with spacers, see the second one below in 2009 before spacers the first one is in 2011 after spacers , you can see how the wheels now protrude past fenders. I guess added 4 inches to tractor width . As for whether I did the math for stability angles etc .....NOPE , same as I don't do the math on whether winter tires or chains give better traction , they just do , you know by the seat of your pants.

 

[xring100]

Someone on this thread asked if I had pictures of my tractor with spacers, see the second one below in 2009 before spacers the first one is in 2011 after spacers , you can see how the wheels now protrude past fenders. I guess added 4 inches to tractor width . As for whether I did the math for stability angles etc .....NOPE , same as I don't do the math on whether winter tires or chains give better traction , they just do , you know by the seat of your pants.

Looks like a pretty significant change probably over 10% increase in overall width I love your dog sleeping in the driveway.

Dave

 

[panchohughes]

Re: Tipped my BX25 FEL & BH on its side - what precautions to take before starting en

Someone on this thread asked if I had pictures of my tractor with spacers, see the second one below in 2009 before spacers the first one is in 2011 after spacers , you can see how the wheels now protrude past fenders. I guess added 4 inches to tractor width . As for whether I did the math for stability angles etc .....NOPE , same as I don't do the math on whether winter tires or chains give better traction , they just do , you know by the seat of your pants.

Thanks Jake! I might check with my local bota dealer to see if i can get a set. Seems like money well spent, and does not look ridiculous.
I like the pic of your dog napping in the snow.

 

[GolfAddict]

Re: Tipped my BX25 FEL & BH on its side - what precautions to take before starting en

Thanks Jake! I might check with my local bota dealer to see if i can get a set. Seems like money well spent, and does not look ridiculous.
I like the pic of your dog napping in the snow.

If you have a MMM, be aware that the wheels will interfere if you have the 54" deck. You can install them and have no issues with the 60" deck, but only to a certain width of spacers (I think 2", but can't remember for sure). Unfortunately, I have the 54" deck and can't use spacers.

 

[GolfAddict]

Re: Tipped my BX25 FEL & BH on its side - what precautions to take before starting en

Thanks Jake! I might check with my local bota dealer to see if i can get a set. Seems like money well spent, and does not look ridiculous.
I like the pic of your dog napping in the snow.

Also, a little while ago, Richard at Brotek was running a special on the spacers he makes for the BX. Don't have them since I can't use them, but others have said they are great quality for very reasonable price. Might want to look into them...