Loader True Third Function- factory or do it myself

[J_J]

paulwestski ,

Logically, the 3ed function should be after the FEL, so the FEL relief will protect the 3ed function operation.

On your 3ed function kit installation, where is the relief valve for the 3ed function, before or after?

Did they come off the hyd block and then to the 3ed function, and then to the FEL?

Does your FEL valve have a relief valve, or is the tractor relief valve in the hyd block?

If you 3ed function is before your FEL valve, if you activate the 3ed function, does it not shut off the flow to the rest of the implement hydraulics. Solenoid operation is usually full on or off, except for proportional solenoid circuitry.

If the 3ed function valve is after the FEL valve, then if you are only using half lever on the FEL valve, there is fluid for the 3ed function.

 

[ovrszd]

Are you sure that the 3rd function is a true remote? For some reason I thought it wasn't so I was never really interested in adding one.

My OEM 3rd function is simply a solenoid operated hydraulic valve that is plumbed using the PB from the loader valve assembly. In my opinion it's a true remote but maybe someone with more hydraulic savvy than I can answer that for sure.

It's definitely not a diverter valve setup which I wasn't interested in having. When shopping for my tractor I looked at a NH T4050. One thing I didn't like was that they use a diverter valve to operate their 3rd function thru the bucket tip circuit.

 

[J_J]

If there is a 3ed function, where is the first and second function?

Is it just an extra circuit, and is it self protecting.

Is there a forth function, and so on down the line?

 

[EverythingAttachments]

If anyone can solve it, you can J_J. Your posts quite often amaze me!
Travis

 

[ovrszd]

If there is a 3ed function, where is the first and second function?

Is it just an extra circuit, and is it self protecting.

Is there a forth function, and so on down the line?

Knowing my hyrdaulic knowledge is lacking, I'll tackle these questions.

In my case, first function is loader boom lift, second function is bucket curl. Then the PB of the loader valve is plumbed to the IN of the 3rd function valve. So as JJ described earlier, if I am not using 100% of the capacity of my tractor's system in the first two functions, there is flow leftover to cause action in the 3rd function. When I reach 100% flow capacity of the tractor, all flow beyond stops.

Hmmmm,,, is it an extra circuit and self protected?? I'm gonna guess no on extra circuit, it's simply a continuation of the circuit supplying flow to my loader valve because it comes off the PB. Same with my rear remotes and 3pt, they too are continuations of the original circuit. With that I'd say my tractor only has one circuit. As for self protected,,, I'm gonna guess that it is not.

As for fourth function and so on down the line. Yes. My tractor starts at the loader valve supplying boom lift and curl, then 3rd function, then rear remotes, then 3pt lift.

How'd I do JJ??

 

[RaydaKub]

Knowing my hyrdaulic knowledge is lacking, I'll tackle these questions.

In my case, first function is loader boom lift, second function is bucket curl. Then the PB of the loader valve is plumbed to the IN of the 3rd function valve. So as JJ described earlier, if I am not using 100% of the capacity of my tractor's system in the first two functions, there is flow leftover to cause action in the 3rd function. When I reach 100% flow capacity of the tractor, all flow beyond stops.

Hmmmm,,, is it an extra circuit and self protected?? I'm gonna guess no on extra circuit, it's simply a continuation of the circuit supplying flow to my loader valve because it comes off the PB. Same with my rear remotes and 3pt, they too are continuations of the original circuit. With that I'd say my tractor only has one circuit. As for self protected,,, I'm gonna guess that it is not.

As for fourth function and so on down the line. Yes. My tractor starts at the loader valve supplying boom lift and curl, then 3rd function, then rear remotes, then 3pt lift.

How'd I do JJ??

I'm hydraulically challenged. Are you saying that if I have 2 remotes (fel, curl) that my 3ph basically is 3rd in line? And if I added a 3rd valve for either a grapple or something in the rear, that the 3ph then becomes 4th in line and so on? I would have guessed that the 3ph would be first in line because it is "right there" in the rear end. But it sounds like it is really last.

Sent from my iPad using TractorByNet

 

[J_J]

RaydaKub

Your 3pt is usually last valve in series and dumps into the hyd tank.

 

[J_J]

Knowing my hyrdaulic knowledge is lacking, I'll tackle these questions.

In my case, first function is loader boom lift, second function is bucket curl. Then the PB of the loader valve is plumbed to the IN of the 3rd function valve. So as JJ described earlier, if I am not using 100% of the capacity of my tractor's system in the first two functions, there is flow leftover to cause action in the 3rd function. When I reach 100% flow capacity of the tractor, all flow beyond stops.

Hmmmm,,, is it an extra circuit and self protected?? I'm gonna guess no on extra circuit, it's simply a continuation of the circuit supplying flow to my loader valve because it comes off the PB. Same with my rear remotes and 3pt, they too are continuations of the original circuit. With that I'd say my tractor only has one circuit. As for self protected,,, I'm gonna guess that it is not.

As for fourth function and so on down the line. Yes. My tractor starts at the loader valve supplying boom lift and curl, then 3rd function, then rear remotes, then 3pt lift.

How'd I do JJ??

Don't know where the 3ed function came from or a definition for for the term.

Although open center hyd circuits have all valves in series, they should always have a relief valve before any other hyd component after the pump.

In a closed center hyd system, there is usually a single relief valve close by the pump, and the other hyd valve do not need a relief valve.

If the 3ed function is first in line from the pump, I would say that it is not protected.

If it comes off the hyd blk, there is usually a relief valve on the hyd block.

I think of a a 3ed function as an extra circuit that can be used for just about anything, grapple, 4-1 bucket. etc.

3ed function valves are also PB capable if the flow is available. .

Sometimes the 3ed function may not have full pump flow, due to other valves/cyl using the hyd fluid.

A 3ed function can be used independently of any other hyd circuit as long as there is an external relief valve before the 3ed function.

I did find this excerpt for a CAT brochure.

Auxiliary Hydraulics
Auxiliary hydraulics provide
unparalleled versatility allowing you to
select the configuration that best suits
your application. Third function only
or packaged with fourth enables the use
of almost all work tools. Fifth and sixth
function hydraulics are also available
for responsive independent positioning
of work tools with multiple hydraulic
cylinders such as snow plows with
hydraulically movable snow wings

 

[paulwestski]

paulwestski ,

Logically, the 3ed function should be after the FEL, so the FEL relief will protect the 3ed function operation.

On your 3ed function kit installation, where is the relief valve for the 3ed function, before or after?

Did they come off the hyd block and then to the 3ed function, and then to the FEL?

Does your FEL valve have a relief valve, or is the tractor relief valve in the hyd block?

If you 3ed function is before your FEL valve, if you activate the 3ed function, does it not shut off the flow to the rest of the implement hydraulics. Solenoid operation is usually full on or off, except for proportional solenoid circuitry.

If the 3rd function valve is after the FEL valve, then if you are only using half lever on the FEL valve, there is fluid for the 3ed function.

JJ
I've been studying the parts diagrams for the kubota 3rd function and loader. The best I can determine is the 3rd function comes directly off of the Hydro pump and then feeds the loader valve, loader valve feeds the top cover of the transmission, which feeds both the rear remotes and the three point.

What I really need is the installation manual for the Kubota 3rd function option.

 

[paulwestski]

JJ is the winner:thumbsup:
The hydraulic block included with the Kubota 3rd function kit does contain a relief.
Part 170 on the parts diagram.
Lesson learned here...Pay attention all you workshop hydraulic engineers!!!!!
What JJ said...the first valve off of the pump or Hydro block must have the pressure relief in it.
When planning my home brew setup I did not consider this.
I don't believe the valves offered at Surplus center have the pressure relief in the subplate.