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  1. #1

    Join Date
    May 2003
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    381
    Location
    Katy, Texas
    Tractor
    Kubota L3130 HST

    Default Square Baler for Hay?

    I've followed several posts on round hay bailers and the size of tractor required to run one. But what about square bailers? Anyone know what a square bailer would cost and the HP required to run it?

  2. #2

    Join Date
    May 2003
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    381
    Location
    Katy, Texas
    Tractor
    Kubota L3130 HST

    Default Re: Square Bailer for Hay?

    Never mind. Found the answers on the JD and New Holland sites. Looks like the minimum HP for the smallest bailer is 35 PTO. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

  3. #3
    Gold Member
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    Jul 2003
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    405
    Location
    Hunterdon County, NJ
    Tractor
    Kubota L4310HST

    Default Re: Square Bailer for Hay?

    The older, smaller JD and NH balers need less power. And if you are only doing a few acres it can be done.

    Rich

  4. #4
    Elite Member 5030's Avatar
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    Michigan, S.E. Monroe County
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    Kubota M9000 Hyd shuttle/Massey 1085

    Default Re: Square Bailer for Hay?

    ICat:

    When it comes to bailing hay with a kubota, you should always come to me first. I usually have the answers or I am at least close [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    A square bailer as opposed to a round baler derives its inertia from a flywheel. The flywheel provides smooth power flow for the ram as well as the knotters. Consequently, power requirements ar substantially less for a square bailer over a rounder.

    We have a 335 JD that we ran with my old 3710. The only time it really worked the 3710 was when the hay got a little "tough". The 335 has a hydraulic kicker on it that's powered from a pump that runs from the flywheel too.

    When a square baler states "35pto requirement" it means that you will need 35 pto for adverse conditions and maximum bailing speed. You could run the baler on 25 pto easily.

    You might encounter 2 problems.
    1. The tractor being light in weight, will be rocked back and forth by the plunger action of the ram in the bailing chamber.
    2. Normal practice is to hitch a flat rack on the back of the bailer to load bales as the come out of the bale chute. A light tractor might have problems pulling a bailer and flat rack at the same time.

  5. #5
    Elite Member 5030's Avatar
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    Michigan, S.E. Monroe County
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    Kubota M9000 Hyd shuttle/Massey 1085

    Default Re: Square Bailer for Hay?

    ICat:

    I should probablly add that square bailers, as long as they will "bale" are worth what you can get them for.

    By "bale", I mean the knotters work, and the bale chamber is in good shape as well as the bearings and drive train.

    I am partial to NH, even though we have a JD too. NH was the original design. As a matter of fact, the first knotters were NH. They are copied by everyone else.

    Lastly, never fool around with a knotter. Always call a service man. Knotters are very finicky and their operation is shrouded in mystery or at least the operation is so fast, that you can't follow it. We have a video made by JD on knotter operation. I have watched it numerous times, both sober and intoxicated. I still can't follow the cycle on the actual bailer. It's easier to call the serviceman to set it up.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    May 2003
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    381
    Location
    Katy, Texas
    Tractor
    Kubota L3130 HST

    Default Re: Square Bailer for Hay?

    You da man! OK, so I'm looking for an older bailer (which is probably good since it will be less expensive). Found a couple in the "under $2k" range that I might take a look at.

    Like many others I suffer from the "not enough to mess with and too much to ignore" hay problem. The 10 or so acres in hay right now are not enough to entice someone to cut it for me, and too much to let die out or just lie there after I bush hog (besides - I hate seeing the good grass go to waste after I cut).

    According to the local tax man, I can also get back my Ag Exemption if I add a few hay bales to the property (there are some really screwy rules going on here - but that's another subject entirely). [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  7. #7
    Veteran Member
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    Jul 2003
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    1,993
    Location
    MN
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    Ford 960, 7700, TW20, 1720; IHC H, 300; Ollie S77

    Default Re: Square Bailer for Hay?

    You are looking for a NH 68 to 271 baler or a JD 14T or 24T baler. All other brands _might_ work, might 'knot'.

    Balers are _all_ about the knotters. NH & JD got it right, others got it hit or miss (on older equipment).

    Baler of this vintage goes for $500-1000 in _good_ working condition. That will be the hard part for you to guess - it's all art & mirrors - hard to see if they work unless you actually bale 100+ bales. Remember, it's all about the knotters, and you can't really tell by just looking....

    Square balers need 15-20 hp for themselves, and 10 hp or so to pull the tractor & baler around. You have more fun if you have 35 hp+. Live pto is really important too.

    Many compact tractors are _not_ rated to pull a baler, and warrenty will not cover repairs for 2 reasons:

    The baler runs off a flywheel as Darrel (sp?) mentioned. The flywheel can store as much as 50 hp, even tho it only takes 17 hp to keep it spinning. The baler itself goes from using 1 hp to using the whole 50 hp, back to 1 hp..... The lighter drivetrains of compact tractors cannont take this strain.

    Also, a square baler with about 3 bales of hay in it weigh a _lot_, and you can have the tail wagging the dog. Can really be tough to safely control.

    Just things to think about. For more info on old balers, the archives at www.ytmag.com will have a lot of stuff for you. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    --->Paul

  8. #8
    Elite Member 5030's Avatar
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    Michigan, S.E. Monroe County
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    Kubota M9000 Hyd shuttle/Massey 1085

    Default Re: Square Bailer for Hay?

    ICat:

    Your 3130 would handle a 24T for instance. Just probably not with a flat rack loaded with 100 bales or so on the rear of the bailer.

    Like I said, the bailer will rock your tractor a bit. Run in 4wd. You will be okay. I also presume that your field is relatively flat. I'd not want to be running up hill and especially down hill with the bailer and a wagon on back. You might get pushed to the point of losing control.

    Because your tractor is HST like mine, run in L or M and set your tractor with the pto engaged at an idle. Ease the clutch in as it takes quite a bit to get the flywheel spinning. Spool it up to about an indicated 500rpm on the pto. I can't remember if you have a hydraulic or dog clutch on the pto, but it dosen't matter, just start at an idle, and bring it up.

    A good static check of a knotter mechanism is to grab a needle (that's the long curved item that points vertically just behind the bale chamber) and wiggle it back and forth. A lot of side-to-side play indicates worn bushings and will equate to a mis-tie. Also, look in the side of the cam followers (the casting at the top of the knotter mechanism and observe the follower roller. If the roller is beat up pretty bad, that's a good indication of worn bushings and lack of proper greasing and will also cause a mis-tie.

    A complete knotter assembly on a 24T is about $350.00. That dosen't include needles or driveline parts.

    Another good indicator of how the bailer was treated is to look at the pickup. If the fingers are all bent and the reel is not aligned at the bottom (all slats in the same plane) that means the bailer was crowded or run too low and fed trash.

    Most farmers I know, don't have a good maintenance program, especially with haying implements. Run it and if it breaks, then fix it and forget the grease gun.

    I don't like to plug anything, but I make a bronze inserted case hardened follower roller set for JD and NH bailers. None of the pivots in the knotters are greasable, you just are able to oil them and the chaff will quickly wick any oil away so I make a set of 660 bronze bushed follower rollers. They are pretty popular around here.

  9. #9
    Elite Member
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    Sep 2003
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    Location
    New Brunswick, Canada
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    Kubota L5030 HSTC, MF 5455

    Default Re: Square Bailer for Hay?

    I'm glad this info was posted, I have only baled on 50 hp or smaller tractors. One place uses a Ford 3000 and a baler with a thrower towing a wagon.

    I have never been in a tractor that didn't rock when baling, 3500 lb up to 9000 lb tractor, the plunger rocks you.

    It is odd to see all the references to 70hp+ hp tractors are required. Round balers are of course a different beast.

  10. #10
    Veteran Member
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    Apr 2001
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    Cherry Valley, New York (near Cooperstown, NY)
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    Kubota L4630, with cab and loader, 1951 Ferguson TO-20, 1986 Ford 5610 with FELl

    Default Re: Square Bailer for Hay?

    A point that has already been mentioned, but I think is critical to emphasize, is unless you are extremely mechanically inclined, make sure you have a good local farm mechanic for the times your baler gives you trouble.

    I admit that I am not very mechanically inclined, but I know mechanics who won't touch a blaer. They are very difficult to work on. Always keep it greased, in fact grease all the fittings before each use. That is probably one of the most important preventative maintainence tips.

    I have a New Holland 273, and it's been great. I only had a problem once, and I called my farm mechanic. He came and had it fixed in a 1/2 hour. He tried to explain what he did to my friend and me, and neither of us had a clue how he did what he did.

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