Wallenstein winch operation

[MAN IN BLACK]

I just bought a new FX65 Wallenstein skidding winch.
I'm waiting for the weather to clear to head to the woods and give it a try ( been raining all weekend here)
My question is...do I need to run the tractor motor at full throttle to have pto 540 rpm, or can I operate the winch at lower motor rpm, and if so, can I still pull the same load ?
Thanks for any advice !
Black

 

[Gordon Gould]

That is an excellant question.
No need to run at full throttle. In fact I would strongly advise against it. Your deisel motor delivers good torque a low rpm's. Deisel have a flat torque curve, meaning the torque is about the same for any rpm once you are above idle. Torque is what generates the pulling capacity not horse power. PTO torgue in foot-lbs turning the winch drum determines the cable pull in lbs.
I run my winch between 1500 and 1800 rpm motor speed which is 300 to 360 rpm at the pto.
Go slow at first. You will find there is a lot to learn to be efficient. And be careful.

 

[CobyRupert]

No, don't run it at 540rpm. When winch blade is lowered, the PTO shaft is at a steep angle. I usually run tractor rpm at 1200 (where 2200 rpm engine = 540rpm PTO), or about 300rpm (PTO). For "heavy" loads I'll "crank engine up to 1500 rpm (or about 368 rpm). I keep the universals regularly greased.

The max load is determined by the friction clutch on the winch. Trying to remember my physics (how max torque relates to power and speed), but i think that at a slower speed the clutch would actually "hold" a heavier load moving at a slow speed than at faster speed? (However its most likely to slip when your cable speed = 0 (i.e. the log is hung up on a stump or rock, etc.)).
I run the FX65 on a 64+hp (rpm) tractor and hardly ever hear the tractor "load", even when the winch's clutch is slipping.
From the operators manual:

 

[dbaer78]

Good advice above. I usually run my fx 90 at 1300-1500rpm

 

[Rod in Forfar]

I just bought a new FX65 Wallenstein skidding winch.
I'm waiting for the weather to clear to head to the woods and give it a try ( been raining all weekend here)
My question is...do I need to run the tractor motor at full throttle to have pto 540 rpm, or can I operate the winch at lower motor rpm, and if so, can I still pull the same load ?
Thanks for any advice !
Black

There's no need to go above idle for most pulls. The beauty of the winch is its automotive clutch. Pull on the rope and the clutch engages as gently as the clutch on a good standard transmission. The thing works best at relaxed speeds. If there's smoke coming off the clutch when you pull, though, you'll need to take the pull more seriously, with safety considerations: more revs will mean more strain on the tractor, so be sure the brakes are set and that you are standing at the end of the rope, because the winch has the torque to spin the tractor around, tow it backwards, or, as my neighbour warned me, break it in half if you have chained the front axle to a tree.

You'll find the winch is a great tool around the property. One of its early uses for me was uprooting sumacs from a building lot. Another time it delicately lifted a large limb from a maple tree off the front of our house without damage. It's great for cleanup of small dead elms: hook on to control the fall, cut the tree, tow the whole thing to a landing in a more convenient location on the farm. It's also the only safe tool I know for taking down widow makers. Just hook onto the butt and pull.

With practice you'll likely use it instead of a felling wedge to control the direction of tree falls. Pre-tension the cable enough that it doesn't sag from as high as you can reach. Cut the wedge. Add more tension if necessary. Cut the tree. It's very accurate. Of course you'll need the full 150' of cable for most uses of this sort.

Another bonus of the machine: the cage around the unit is to protect the operator, not so much during skidding operations as when backing up to pile brush and logs. The winch is virtually indestructible when used as a bulldozer blade against logs and brush.

Notice how I've left the actual skidding until last? That's because it gets used as a winch on my property more than as a log skidder. It works fine for the few logs I take out each year (high quality hardwoods or firewood) but it's useful enough the rest of the time I never take it off the Massey Ferguson 35.

 

[MAN IN BLACK]

Thanks for the great comments & advice ev1 !
Black

 

[Gordon Gould]

You may find having a snatch block or two will help a lot especially if you have rough, steep, or swampy terrain where you can't just drive anywhere you want. They enable you to keep the cable straight back from the tractor and then change the direction of pull with the snatch block. They help to get around good trees you want to save and not damage by rubbing the bark off. Here are a couple examples. The first two are a winch line I set up down a stteep hill over a ledgey place. The third I have my tractor in a skid road with a snatch block on an ash right behind it. Then I hung the cable high on a tree with a second block (a slider actually) so I could pull that tree that is hung up and behind the stump up and over the stump and then skid it down to the road.

 

[1bush2hog]

Nice rigging Gordon!

 

[CobyRupert]

If there's smoke coming off the clutch when you pull, though, you'll need to take the pull more seriously, with safety considerations: more revs will mean more strain on the tractor, so be sure the brakes are set and that you are standing at the end of the rope, because the winch has the torque to spin the tractor around, tow it backwards, or, as my neighbour warned me, break it in half if you have chained the front axle to a tree.

Also: Watch out you don't tip the tractor over if pulling from an angle. Especially if you're not running the cable through the lower pulley on the blade of the winch and pulling directly from the upper pulley like a Farmi does. If pulling at an angle from a point above the tractor's center of gravity, watch the tractor's tire to make sure they stay on the ground.
Yes, you should always use the lower pulley as it takes the stress off the upper 3pt link, but I sometimes cheat because it helps to pull the end of the log over stumps, or from the log butts dragging 4 wheelbarrows worth of brush and sticks that get all bound up in the choker chains.

 

[Gordon Gould]

Yes, you should always use the lower pulley as it takes the stress off the upper 3pt link, but I sometimes cheat because it helps to pull the end of the log over stumps, or from the log butts dragging 4 wheelbarrows worth of brush and sticks that get all bound up in the choker chains.

I respecfully disagree with your statement that the lower pully should be used while winching. The only way to get down pressure on the winch blade is by using the upper pully. Downward pressure is necessary to propery anchor the winch. With the blade anchored properly the pulling force is on the winch itself and the ground it is buried in with very little force transferred to the lift arms and top link. If you winch from the lower pully there is very little downward force to bury the blade so the tractor has to hold the winch back thru the lift arms and top link. That is hard on the tractor and it is more likely to move.
Many people do not believe this but it is true. If the cable is not angling down there is no downward force on the winch to anchor it. It is that simple.
Reading this may be interesting. It is not Farmi hype it is basic physics. Note the highlighted bold text.