Rear wheel width setting vs. Bucket Width

[ovrszd]

Well I tried. :banghead: Consider if you will your wide front tractor parked sideways on a large tilt bed. Nice even plane under all four tires. Now tilt the bed until the tractor is just about to roll. The front axle is still on the same plane as the rear tires and nowhere near the stops. But the tractor is ready to roll because the center of gravity has reached a position in the vertical plane that is determined by the line from the lower rear tire and the lower front tire. If the tractor had a narrow front end it already would have rolled as that plane would be closer to the COG to begin with.

I totally understand what you are saying until you get to the last sentence. Then your theory won't hold up.

Keep in mind now, we are not arguing. Don't bang your head against a brick wall. I'm not a brick wall.

In your scenario both tractors will tip at close to the same time. Actually the tricycle might hold out a pinch longer because it's not pivoting on a single point (the wide front axle oscillation point). It's actually got a slight advantage because it's tipping on the two front tires that are spread apart a few inches.

The "difference" that's important would appear as the wide front tractor started to roll. When the front axle oscillated to the stop, it would quit rolling and would require more tilt of the bed to complete the roll. But the high side rear tire would already be off the ground however much distance the axle oscillation would allow before lifting the high side front tire.

Very interesting discusion. Just don't talk to me as if I don't know what I'm talking about, i.e., mur

 

[alchemysa]

Well I tried. :banghead: Consider if you will your wide front tractor parked sideways on a large tilt bed. Nice even plane under all four tires. Now tilt the bed until the tractor is just about to roll. The front axle is still on the same plane as the rear tires and nowhere near the stops. But the tractor is ready to roll because the center of gravity has reached a position in the vertical plane that is determined by the line from the lower rear tire and the lower front tire. If the tractor had a narrow front end it already would have rolled as that plane would be closer to the COG to begin with.

I think this is wrong. Both tractors are equally likely to roll at the same time. Both tractors are tricycles, the only difference being that one has a central metal pin up front instead of a central tyre. However the tractor with the wider stance has the secondary benefit of the stops that come into play when the tractor starts to roll.

 

[vtsnowedin]

Well as you won't take my word for it could you perhaps give this government piece a read?

http://bioengr.ag.utk.edu/extension/extprog/safety/Tractor/tractorsafety.pdf

 

[alchemysa]

Well as you won't take my word for it could you perhaps give this government piece a read?

http://bioengr.ag.utk.edu/extension/extprog/safety/Tractor/tractorsafety.pdf

I've read it, but theres nothing there that disproves my point. The diagram showing the added stability of the 4 wheels/wider stance is only applicable once the front axle oscillation stop has been reached. Prior to that there's no significant difference because both tractors balance on 3 points.

The wider stance is of course safer in the end, but you seemed to be implying that widening the front stance makes the tractor inherently less likely to lift a back wheel in the first place. I disagree.

 

[vtsnowedin]

The wider stance is of course safer in the end, .

What other point matters? Disagree all you want , I disagree with you. Good day.

 

[alchemysa]

Anyway, back to the OP's original question. Yeah, I think you'll find life a lot easier if your bucket is a bit wider than both your front and rear wheel widths. Levelling gravel or digging/levelling any sort of pad will go a lot smoother.

 

[ovrszd]

I've read it, but theres nothing there that disproves my point. The diagram showing the added stability of the 4 wheels/wider stance is only applicable once the front axle oscillation stop has been reached. Prior to that there's no significant difference because both tractors balance on 3 points.

The wider stance is of course safer in the end, but you seemed to be implying that widening the front stance makes the tractor inherently less likely to lift a back wheel in the first place. I disagree.

Yep, I read it too. Came to the same conclusion as you. And just because it's an educational study doesn't mean it's right. It's theory doesn't even consider that the wide front tractor is actually on a pivoting axle. It treats the wide front concept as if it had a solid mounted front axle. I've not saw a tractor like that yet.

 

[SaddleBronc]

Anyway, back to the OP's original question. Yeah, I think you'll find life a lot easier if your bucket is a bit wider than both your front and rear wheel widths. Levelling gravel or digging/levelling any sort of pad will go a lot smoother.

Agreed. My JD 5300 w/520 FEL has a bucket about a foot narrower than the front wheel track. I used this to do both road grading and pond clean out tasks, and learned the wheels were often in the way.

When I purchased the JD 110 TLB, it came with a 72" bucket, just wider than the (non-adjustable) front and rear tracks. What a difference! Clearly more designed for digging & grading. I rarely use the 520 bucket any more.

As for me, I will always prefer buckets, rear blades, and mowers that are wider than the front (and rear) track.

 

[dieselcrawler]

I just added wheel spacers... rear tires are now about a foot wider than both the bucket and rear implements. I will deal with working Iissues/tire to bucket interference for the added sidehill stability.

Not everyone is going to understand or agree on COG vs width issues... nor do I care. But having been on tractors on hillsides for my whole life, I will set my tires as wide as possible. Straight axle or tricycle tractor, I dont care... just give me wide rear wheels. Flat ground and a lot of digging/loader work and narrower would be more convenient. And less stable as the loader is raised.