How much would I notice 11 extra PTO HP?

[Mark @ Everlast]

This doesnt really address what I said. I was comparing power output wheel to wheel and pto to pto for gear and HST.
larry

My comments come from factory engineers with several different tractor companies that I have worked with/for. All have said the same thing about HST having a larger loss in delivered HP to the PTO than gear drive systems.

 

[TSO]

My comments come from factory engineers with several different tractor companies that I have worked with/for. All have said the same thing about HST having a larger loss in delivered HP to the PTO than gear drive systems.

This is nothing new to anyone, including me, as I have experience with both systems.

I'm not asking which system delivers more HP... I'm wanting to know how obvious the difference will be from 37 PTO HP to 48. What about 37 to 41? The next HP size in my MF would be the 1652 (52/41 HP).

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

A power reverser is a shuttle shift. It just does the clutching for you. And yes it is easy to change directions, but nothing beats a hydro for inching around and being able to instantly vary your ground speed without changing your engine or PTO speed.

You can have a gear drive with a Hydraulic component without it being a HST. Power shift and torque converters are such items. You can even have planetary gears to accomplish the same things. I've used both extensively, and worked on both. I realize it is a matter of personal preference, but once you pay the repair bill on a cranky HST, then something else looks appealing.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I am not familiar with the Kioti but I would think that frame size would increase a bit more than your MF 1648 so maneuverability will be a little worse. You WILL certainly notice a 30% increase in HP in all activities.

 

[TSO]

I am not familiar with the Kioti but I would think that frame size would increase a bit more than your MF 1648 so maneuverability will be a little worse. You WILL certainly notice a 30% increase in HP in all activities.

Same size. The NX is the new tier 4 DK series...

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

The reason I pointed it out was because there are other factors that change when you increase hp at that suze between hst that become more magnified...
Buy you will notice even a 3 pto hp increase at that level. Even with the frame size increase it will not rob the extra poeer but will put more of it to the traction. A larger frame will reduce operator fatigue and vibrations as well

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

fat fingers.. sorry for typos.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

The reason I pointed it out was because there are other factors that change when you increase hp at that suze between hst that become more magnified...
Buy you will notice even a 3 pto hp increase at that level. Even with the frame size increase it will not rob the extra poeer but will put more of it to the traction. A larger frame will reduce operator fatigue and vibrations as well

This is what I was thinking as well. Not only would he be better off with more power, but the size and weight of the machine and what he "could" ballast it to would make his work much easier IMO.

30% increase in power is HUGE, plus be 12% heavier. All of this makes for a much better working machine IMO.

 

[the old grind]

Loss from engine to wheel drive is high for HST. Loss from engine to pto stub is about the same as gear tho. Sometimes its hard to use pto only so the hi ground drive loss tends to rear its head often. A "hidden" parasite in one part of the system.
larry

Agree. I'm sure that HST sacrifices more PTO (& o'all) power when moving than when sitting still. (acknowledged inefficiency of a 'fluid drive' system)

HST isn't costing much when parked over a stump, where power on tap is divided between PTO the hydraulic pump. (Always frictional losses, but not without harnessing your hp somehow) IMO the big difference vs gear or shuttle is when in motion vs when not.

TSO, during the other "90%" of your work I might expect you to notice a difference in fuel consumption, if not some extra weight either on your trailer or a job on soft ground. Of course we won't mind if you share more info gained when shopping. You seem to have a knack for picking winners. :thumbsup:

 

[TSO]

Thanks tog...

Guys, there's NO difference in size between my MF 1648 & the Kioti NX 6010. It's just a turbocharged tier4 3cyl, and is actually a smaller engine than what's in my tractor.

I'm not sure where that idea of the other one being larger came in...

We're strictly taking operational PTO HP concerns, nothing else. It doesn't matter if we're talking HST or gear or powershuttle, or power reverser, etc. I'm talking rated PTO HP, while stationary, turning an grinding implement, and giving it resistance.