I got a Tractor!
- Thread starter The Chicken
- Start date
woodchipper
Silver Member
- Joined
- May 17, 2011
- Messages
- 247
- Location
- Campbell's Bay, Qu饕ec, Canada
- Tractor
- 1965 JD 710; 2000 Universal 643DT 4wd, loader, cab with heat:), 1983 MF 50F Backhoe 2wd.
Congrats on your new "industrial" tractor. I can see that you are of the most courageous type in willing to put back to life this machine!:thumbsup:
As you own a lathe and milling machine, this bushing replacement will only be a few hours of your time, with very little money down. Go for it!
Did you have a look at the engine already? Because if it has not turned over for a long time, many parts could be seized up!
Therefore, I would first start by removing the oil pan, and the cylinder head. No lubrication, rusty surfaces are just going to aggravate things very quickly. Also, after doing so, and assuming it will be not much to have the engine turning, I would take the fuel pump out and rebuild it. the seals will certainly be done...
So first turning the engine over, then fuel delivery, and last a spark (ignition)!
If you take your time and do it well the tractor may end up being a keeper. From your first posted picture, it really does need a lot of TLC...
Good luck, and keep us posted with your progress (and perseverence!), and accompanying pictures of course!
As you own a lathe and milling machine, this bushing replacement will only be a few hours of your time, with very little money down. Go for it!
Did you have a look at the engine already? Because if it has not turned over for a long time, many parts could be seized up!
Therefore, I would first start by removing the oil pan, and the cylinder head. No lubrication, rusty surfaces are just going to aggravate things very quickly. Also, after doing so, and assuming it will be not much to have the engine turning, I would take the fuel pump out and rebuild it. the seals will certainly be done...
So first turning the engine over, then fuel delivery, and last a spark (ignition)!
If you take your time and do it well the tractor may end up being a keeper. From your first posted picture, it really does need a lot of TLC...
Good luck, and keep us posted with your progress (and perseverence!), and accompanying pictures of course!
McREBEL
Gold Member
This looks like a fun project for someone who has the time, resources, and know how. I am looking forward to the updates and especially the "It cranked!" post.
OP
The Chicken
Member
I think this might be the case. I see a fat spot on the link and a couple holes, so perhaps that's where the pins go? I will investigate.
What would be the purpose of allowing that link to float?
OP
The Chicken
Member
The leather and brass casing ideas are good ones! That's what I need, some good 'ol farm tech!
I pulled the plugs, looked in the cylinders, didn't see any real rust-some tiny flecks on the valve faces. I squirted a bunch of oil in each hole. I figure after a week or so, I'll pull the plugs and see if it rotates by hand. Supposedly it only sat about a year, so we will see...
I pulled the plugs, looked in the cylinders, didn't see any real rust-some tiny flecks on the valve faces. I squirted a bunch of oil in each hole. I figure after a week or so, I'll pull the plugs and see if it rotates by hand. Supposedly it only sat about a year, so we will see...
OP
The Chicken
Member
OK, Been awhile since I posted here. Been busy.
But, I have managed to get some work done on the tractor.
First, this is what the engine, and pretty much the whole thing looked like when I brought it home-
But, I have managed to get some work done on the tractor.
First, this is what the engine, and pretty much the whole thing looked like when I brought it home-
OP
The Chicken
Member
Well, the thing was so dirty, I really couldn't even see what was underneath all the oil and dirt. So a few hours here and there with a scraper, several gallons of Super Purple cleaner, and finally a pressure washer revealed a tractor under that crap. Turns out it is yellow!
I did all this while the carb spent a week or two in the carb cleaner bucket. As mentioned, I had also squirted a healthy dose of oil down each cylinder just to make sure nothing would stick. Finally, after several weeks, I had time to mess with it one day, and decided it was time to see if it would turn over by hand. Low and behold, it spins nice and easy! So then I decided to see if it would turn over with the starter. So with the plugs removed, I hooked up a battery and gave it a whirl. Like I had hoped, it turned over easy and squirted whatever excess oil that was still in the cylinders out the hole. Then, as I was cranking it over, I put a finger over each plug hole as just a rough measure to check compression. All seemed functioning except for number two-which was sucking AND blowing with EVERY stroke. Oh-oh... I was afraid that that might be the end of the whole project right there.
I removed the valve cover to discover this-
Well. THAT can't be good! But the push rod appeared to be straight, the valve easily compressed with light tapping with a rubber mallet, and everything seemed OK. So, with the hopes that perhaps the valve had stuck when we first turned it over, and the extra-loose valve lash just allowed the push rod to fall out, we compressed the spring and stuck the push rod back under the rocker. With fingers crossed, I hit the starter and spun her over a bit (at this point, the carb is still in the cleaner bucket), and it seemed to function just fine.
Then I tightened up the valve lash a bit.
One thing I was concerned with, was during all our cranking activities, I never saw the oil pressure gauge so much as twitch. And after a LOT of cranking, there was only the barest hint of oil showing up at the push rods or in the head area. So I cracked the oil line to the guage and cranked away. Oil started dribbling out of the fitting-so we were getting flow there, at least-although it was not much. A quick squirt of air to the oil gauge line confirmed that the mechanical gauge worked. So I was pretty concerned.
I then decided to dump the old sludge out of the motor and change the filter-which I had ordered from Stieners. I say sludge, because the crap that was in that poor motor could not possibly have been motor oil. I think that oil had not been changed in decades. Then I poured some diesel down the head and out the pan in attempt to flush out any nasties. Then I put new oil in it. When I went to put the new filter on, I encountered the next issue-the filter they sent me was NOTHING like the one that came out of the canister! Luckily, there was a legible (Donaldson, I think) part number on it, and by some great miracle the local NAPA had one that crossed to it. With all that out of the way, it was time to get back to the carb...
I did all this while the carb spent a week or two in the carb cleaner bucket. As mentioned, I had also squirted a healthy dose of oil down each cylinder just to make sure nothing would stick. Finally, after several weeks, I had time to mess with it one day, and decided it was time to see if it would turn over by hand. Low and behold, it spins nice and easy! So then I decided to see if it would turn over with the starter. So with the plugs removed, I hooked up a battery and gave it a whirl. Like I had hoped, it turned over easy and squirted whatever excess oil that was still in the cylinders out the hole. Then, as I was cranking it over, I put a finger over each plug hole as just a rough measure to check compression. All seemed functioning except for number two-which was sucking AND blowing with EVERY stroke. Oh-oh... I was afraid that that might be the end of the whole project right there.
I removed the valve cover to discover this-
Well. THAT can't be good! But the push rod appeared to be straight, the valve easily compressed with light tapping with a rubber mallet, and everything seemed OK. So, with the hopes that perhaps the valve had stuck when we first turned it over, and the extra-loose valve lash just allowed the push rod to fall out, we compressed the spring and stuck the push rod back under the rocker. With fingers crossed, I hit the starter and spun her over a bit (at this point, the carb is still in the cleaner bucket), and it seemed to function just fine.
Then I tightened up the valve lash a bit.
One thing I was concerned with, was during all our cranking activities, I never saw the oil pressure gauge so much as twitch. And after a LOT of cranking, there was only the barest hint of oil showing up at the push rods or in the head area. So I cracked the oil line to the guage and cranked away. Oil started dribbling out of the fitting-so we were getting flow there, at least-although it was not much. A quick squirt of air to the oil gauge line confirmed that the mechanical gauge worked. So I was pretty concerned.
I then decided to dump the old sludge out of the motor and change the filter-which I had ordered from Stieners. I say sludge, because the crap that was in that poor motor could not possibly have been motor oil. I think that oil had not been changed in decades. Then I poured some diesel down the head and out the pan in attempt to flush out any nasties. Then I put new oil in it. When I went to put the new filter on, I encountered the next issue-the filter they sent me was NOTHING like the one that came out of the canister! Luckily, there was a legible (Donaldson, I think) part number on it, and by some great miracle the local NAPA had one that crossed to it. With all that out of the way, it was time to get back to the carb...
OP
The Chicken
Member
So, while all of the shenanigans above were playing out over the course of several weeks, the carb had been sitting in the cleaner. I hadn't intended to soak it that long, life just kept me from getting to it. The good news is that sucker was CLEAN! The bad news is I could barely remember how the **** thing went together!
This was somewhat complicated by the fact that the kit had some extra parts to fit other carbs, along with several different sets of destructions. One thing that i didn't realize is that the throttle shaft is actually sealed by a lip seal-which was totally missing on the carb when I got it. So between the new lip seal, and a couple of o-rings I put on the outside of the shaft that ride in the lip seal retainer, the worn-out throttle shaft seemed at least useable. Which was good, as I really didn't have the time or desire to spend several hours machining parts for a motor I wasn't even sure would run.
Anyway, I got the carb all back together and bolted on. I made a new valve cover gasket from a tired old sheet of cork I happened to have laying around and got that back in place.
At that point, there wasn't much else to do other than see if it would actually run. Concern over the oil pressure (or lack of) had me debating dropping the pan and checking the pump-but I could plainly see that some one had siliconed the pan on at some point and the job was going to be a nasty mess. Plus I was running out of time.
So,.... I put the plugs and wires back on, pulled the choke lever, hit the key and... Would you believe that **** thing rolled over about two revolutions and then fired right up?! Some crud and smoke came out the exhaust, and it coughed once or twice, then commenced to run fairly good. And the oil pressure even decided to make an appearance! Well Ya-Hooo! I shut it down after just a few seconds to check for any major leaks, oil level or to see if there were any new problems that I could see. All looked good, so I fired it right back up. It popped once in awhile until it warmed up and I took the choke off. I went to adjust the idle jet, but ended up putting it back where I had started. I pulled the radiator cap, and water was even moving around after a bit, so it would appear that even the water pump is functioning!
Well, I was on a roll, so why quit now? The front bucket lifted and lowered, scooped and dumped. The tractor went forward and backwards(I only went a foot or so-but I went!), the gannon controls all seemed to function. I am not sure it the 3-point lift is working or not-it is chained up and I didn't seem to get any real movement from it. The biggest bummer was the brakes-there were none!
Now, the hydraulics. Boy, are there some leaks! One front ram is more of a flow than a leak! Several hoses are dripping, every ram seems to leak to one degree or another, the orbital steering valve has a major leak, the manifolds leak, and pretty much every hose except for two little guys should probably be replaced.
It would appear that every single pin and bushing on the machine is worn at best, destroyed at worst.
The gannon is dented and tweaked, and the rear hinge is bound up so that the rear blade won't float up properly.
The hydraulic fluid looks funky and will need changed...
The problems with this poor thing go on and on...
But all-in-all, I am pretty **** excited! The tractor runs, most of the stuff seems to at least function, and I believe this thing is salvagable!
This was somewhat complicated by the fact that the kit had some extra parts to fit other carbs, along with several different sets of destructions. One thing that i didn't realize is that the throttle shaft is actually sealed by a lip seal-which was totally missing on the carb when I got it. So between the new lip seal, and a couple of o-rings I put on the outside of the shaft that ride in the lip seal retainer, the worn-out throttle shaft seemed at least useable. Which was good, as I really didn't have the time or desire to spend several hours machining parts for a motor I wasn't even sure would run.
Anyway, I got the carb all back together and bolted on. I made a new valve cover gasket from a tired old sheet of cork I happened to have laying around and got that back in place.
At that point, there wasn't much else to do other than see if it would actually run. Concern over the oil pressure (or lack of) had me debating dropping the pan and checking the pump-but I could plainly see that some one had siliconed the pan on at some point and the job was going to be a nasty mess. Plus I was running out of time.
So,.... I put the plugs and wires back on, pulled the choke lever, hit the key and... Would you believe that **** thing rolled over about two revolutions and then fired right up?! Some crud and smoke came out the exhaust, and it coughed once or twice, then commenced to run fairly good. And the oil pressure even decided to make an appearance! Well Ya-Hooo! I shut it down after just a few seconds to check for any major leaks, oil level or to see if there were any new problems that I could see. All looked good, so I fired it right back up. It popped once in awhile until it warmed up and I took the choke off. I went to adjust the idle jet, but ended up putting it back where I had started. I pulled the radiator cap, and water was even moving around after a bit, so it would appear that even the water pump is functioning!
Well, I was on a roll, so why quit now? The front bucket lifted and lowered, scooped and dumped. The tractor went forward and backwards(I only went a foot or so-but I went!), the gannon controls all seemed to function. I am not sure it the 3-point lift is working or not-it is chained up and I didn't seem to get any real movement from it. The biggest bummer was the brakes-there were none!
Now, the hydraulics. Boy, are there some leaks! One front ram is more of a flow than a leak! Several hoses are dripping, every ram seems to leak to one degree or another, the orbital steering valve has a major leak, the manifolds leak, and pretty much every hose except for two little guys should probably be replaced.
It would appear that every single pin and bushing on the machine is worn at best, destroyed at worst.
The gannon is dented and tweaked, and the rear hinge is bound up so that the rear blade won't float up properly.
The hydraulic fluid looks funky and will need changed...
The problems with this poor thing go on and on...
But all-in-all, I am pretty **** excited! The tractor runs, most of the stuff seems to at least function, and I believe this thing is salvagable!
OP
The Chicken
Member
So, here is where I could use some help again.
-I seem to recall somewhere that the 3514 industrial tractor was based on another model of IH tractor. Anybody know what that model was? I ask, because a few things dont jive on this, and perhaps if I knew what farm tractor it was based off of, I could clear things up a bit.
-Air cleaner. There was none on it when I got it. And, unfortunately, it looks like it was run without one for a bit(!!!!). I found what I believe to be a valid part number for the dry element-and I can get that locally. But an internet search for the part numbers of the missing wing nut, bottom cup and spacer net me no results. Anybody have an idea where I might look to find these parts? This is where I was thinking that perhaps the farm version of this might help to track down the missing parts.
-Brakes. LIke I said-I don't seem to have any. The service manual I got for the 3514 indicates that the tractor uses a master cylinder/ slave cylinder hydraulic setup-but I have nothing like that. The operators manual I got for it indicates the proper type of brake (looks like a band brake perhaps?) and how to adjust them, but no service details.
-Transmission. The books tell me that there was a hydrostatic OR a clutched 5-speed. But my unit seems to have some features of both. While it is defiantly hydrostatic in the fact that it has seperate forward and reverse pedals, it is missing the dump valve, and I think it might have more than the two speeds a hydrostatic should have.
I am sure I have some more questions, but I am getting tired and need to quit for the night. Thanks again for the help and ideas!
-I seem to recall somewhere that the 3514 industrial tractor was based on another model of IH tractor. Anybody know what that model was? I ask, because a few things dont jive on this, and perhaps if I knew what farm tractor it was based off of, I could clear things up a bit.
-Air cleaner. There was none on it when I got it. And, unfortunately, it looks like it was run without one for a bit(!!!!). I found what I believe to be a valid part number for the dry element-and I can get that locally. But an internet search for the part numbers of the missing wing nut, bottom cup and spacer net me no results. Anybody have an idea where I might look to find these parts? This is where I was thinking that perhaps the farm version of this might help to track down the missing parts.
-Brakes. LIke I said-I don't seem to have any. The service manual I got for the 3514 indicates that the tractor uses a master cylinder/ slave cylinder hydraulic setup-but I have nothing like that. The operators manual I got for it indicates the proper type of brake (looks like a band brake perhaps?) and how to adjust them, but no service details.
-Transmission. The books tell me that there was a hydrostatic OR a clutched 5-speed. But my unit seems to have some features of both. While it is defiantly hydrostatic in the fact that it has seperate forward and reverse pedals, it is missing the dump valve, and I think it might have more than the two speeds a hydrostatic should have.
I am sure I have some more questions, but I am getting tired and need to quit for the night. Thanks again for the help and ideas!
McREBEL
Gold Member
Good to hear it fired off.