Security & Theft Does this sound right?

   / Does this sound right? #2  
This is probably to head off the "code tuners".
[not that I run performance 'tunes' on my cars or anything]
(yes, i live in a no-inspection part of the world)
 
   / Does this sound right? #3  
God we never should've bailed out GM. One can only hope Deere is next. I will not be told what to do with ANYTHING I pay money for.
 
   / Does this sound right? #4  
This is probably to head off the "code tuners".

The case stems from some farmers who found there new JD equipment disable in the field during harvest due to various computer codes. They were unable to get service to the machines to deal with the codes for some time costing them significant losses do to harvest and weather conditions. They took a complaint to the EFF who has filed for an exemption from DMCA for the code that runs the equipment as they were unable to bypass the codes in the field due to "encryption".

the thought being, we own the equipment, it shouldn't be against the law for us to be able to diagnose and solve these "code issues" ourselves in the field.

The counter point to the above is....
The equipment is so controlled by the computer code, that tampering with it could cause serious issue. both mechanical issues with the equipment, safety issues for both operators and by standards, emissions controls (as regulated by the fed gov't) and lastly monetary issues, as manufactures have moved to supplying more range of products with fewer physical engines and simply de-rateing the engine in software for less expensive equipment.


The supreme court has already ruled on this same topic back when the same groups were arguing that the (simple) mechanical systems were to complex to let independent mechanics work on cars. (dealers only) they already ruled that the same service information that was available to dealer techs be made available to third parties. Thus your ablity to buy "official" service manuals, and have your car serviced at any mechanic.

I suspect a similar ruling in this case. That "service tools" be available to non-dealer parties.

Although the above will not address the greater issue with the DMCA.

For instance, there is a sensor that sits under your seat and disables the equipment if you get up. If you bypass this sensor either physically or electronically, the powers that be can claim that the bypass of the sensor to trick the software is considered "hacking" the control software under DMCA.

THis is the greater issue that they want addressed, but then again it covers everything from your DVD player, your TV, your smart phone, all the way down to modern cars. This is the issue that wont be solved quickly. As the argument is the same for all devices. you own them, you should be able to modify them as you see fit. Its just that the history of mechanical tractors transformed into electronic controled devices is much harder to accept than the idea that your iPhone was ever some mechanical object that never had any DMCA protections.
 
   / Does this sound right? #5  
All the auto makers are looking at this now. I've seen some articles that raise the fear that owners will not be allowed to do any maintenance on the vehicles. However, the real issue here is with two aspects - emissions/gas mileage and safety systems. The car makers don't want to get sued by the government if the cars are too easily reprogrammed (i.e. chipped) for performance rather than the mandated economy and emission levels. With the existing traction control, ABS, stability etc systems and the coming collision avoidance and self steering systems, who is responsible if some modification inadvertently damages that software?

It may not be an issue with most of our tractors, but remember that almost all large Deere tractors steer and to some extent operate themselves based on field mapping, programming and GPS. If that doesn't work correctly, the damages can be significant.
 
   / Does this sound right? #6  
Frankly - why should the dealers/manufactures care if you modify your code - after all once you buy the vehicle you own a full license of that code.

Folks modify windows code all the time, **** Microsoft has even used the modification sin the next versions of the software roll out.

I have a modified code in a truck, and the MPG jumped up dramatically, as well as HP and Torque numbers. I am responsible for that mod, and when my transmission gave up the ghost, well it was my responsibility and my wallet that put in a rebuilt and modified transmission to handle the extra HP.

The last thing that the government can let us own is our equipment, after all we don't own our land, no matter how much we paid for it. You don't continue to pay the tax man, they will just come and take your land. If you family doesn't pay the inheritance tax, tax man comes for the land. **** leave our tractors, and trucks alone already...

Sorry - Rant over...
 
   / Does this sound right?
  • Thread Starter
#7  
Just like other stuff we all own now, I can see where you may be told if you do "X" then your warranty will be null and void. Ownership is an entirely different animal all together.

I understand that some car makers now are including all maintenance in the sale price. This might be a round about way of keeping owners from tinkering with the car. Putting that idea forward to tractors, there better be a whole bunch more "Geek Squad" folks in 4x4 pick ups running around for when these wheeled ag. computers get hick up. I don't want to find out what happens when I'm in the middle of doing something, in the middle of a field, in a new piece of equipment and I can't because a little itty bitty screen reads Error 404 or something like that.
 
   / Does this sound right? #8  
I don't want to find out what happens when I'm in the middle of doing something, in the middle of a field, in a new piece of equipment and I can't because a little itty bitty screen reads Error 404 or something like that.

Many of the newer tractors already have this issue. Just look up "tractor error codes" and you'll find lots of info.
 
   / Does this sound right? #9  
Give me an old 3020, I'll buy it and I'll own it. Friend of mine has an 80hp 4x4 deere, 2012 vintage, has broken down in the field at least 4 times, all due to a tiny electronic sensor in the rear end. Come to think of it I think that 2012 has broken down more than my 1967 Deere, and I got a pretty good head start. I think it is planned obsolescence. They make them to break, and be discarded. How many of these things do you think will be around in 50 years? I'd be willing to bet some of my old ones will be still going in another 50, and I hope my family still owns them.
 
   / Does this sound right? #10  
Yeah, new isn't always better.

This has just recently come full circle with the new T4 final machines. All software controlled, count me out.
 
 
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