Its not your dads diesel tractor any more!

[truckdiagnostics]

The attached is from this month's issue of diesel progress. Paints are fairly accurate picture of tier IV on the industrial side. Interesting read.
View attachment care & feeding.pdf
Steve

 

[meos1]

Nice read. I don't have T4 on anything but I see it in my future. I understand the concepts around DEF handling. Cleanliness has always been a thing I could appreciate when dealing with motive fluids, so that's not a change up. Seems like the cost of the DEF is the uplift on operational expense. We already pay a premium on diesel (I thought it was a early petroleum product so I don't understand why it cost more) but the work output for that fuel is much better in the farm based work we do around the estate.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

IMO, if the EPA keeps it up you are going to see gasoline tractors making a come back, they will have lower purchase cost and lower maintenance. DEF fluid is a urea, so there is different issues dealing with it than petro fuel, as it will freeze. So, when you send a fuel truck out in the winter to fuel up your construction equipment, how does one keep the DEF fluid from freezing. The freezing is not the issue, just can't pump it when it is frozen. Which I never really thought of, so how does one deal with that? Other thing I am finding interesting is the issues with fuel quality and the new high PSI common rail injection system. Speaking with the Bob Cat dealer they are plugging fuel filter constantly on the new Doosan engines. Apparently they went with a higher rated micron rated filter and they are plugging. The filter not being the issue, the customer's storage and filtering before going into the tank.

 

[hutchman]

IMO, if the EPA keeps it up you are going to see gasoline tractors making a come back, they will have lower purchase cost and lower maintenance. DEF fluid is a urea, so there is different issues dealing with it than petro fuel, as it will freeze. So, when you send a fuel truck out in the winter to fuel up your construction equipment, how does one keep the DEF fluid from freezing. The freezing is not the issue, just can't pump it when it is frozen. Which I never really thought of, so how does one deal with that? Other thing I am finding interesting is the issues with fuel quality and the new high PSI common rail injection system. Speaking with the Bob Cat dealer they are plugging fuel filter constantly on the new Doosan engines. Apparently they went with a higher rated micron rated filter and they are plugging. The filter not being the issue, the customer's storage and filtering before going into the tank.

You're right ... EPA won't stop. That's why by 2017 some gas engines will be wearing the same stuff today's diesels do. Some manufacturers (Mercedes) are already making engines with gasoline particulate filters on them. I don't think they will do a regen to clean (but who knows at this point) but when the filter clogs it needs to be replaced (I think I read they are specd. to go 100K miles or something like that).

 

[truckdiagnostics]

it needs to be replaced (I think I read they are specd. to go 100K miles or something like that).

Can't say much on the pick up side, but on the heavy truck side they are cleaning them. Seen prices as low as $200, as they are competing against each other. The larger shops purchased the cleaning equipment to service there fleets and to off set purchase cost they are taking in out side work. When DPF first hit the market the equipment was not around, so they where replacing the DPF, can't say what they are doing on the tractor/construction side. The interesting thing is going to be the guys that bought the high PSI common rail, to get away from the DPF, over time what the two maintenance repair costs are going to be.

 

[jaydee325]

The following is from the website discover diesel exhaust fluid:

Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) freezes into a crystalline slush at 12F (-11C) and should not be kept at temperatures above 86F (30C). If DEF is frozen on your vehicle, for example overnight or over a weekend, you do not need to take any action. Use the vehicle as you normally would. Truck manufacturers use a variety of heating methods to thaw frozen DEF tanks, including in-tank heating elements. While the thawing process is taking place the vehicle's performance will not be affected (the amount of DEF used will be reduced because a cold engine produces a low level of NOx emissions). In some cases the DEF supply tubes are also heated to prevent freezing or tubes are emptied once the engine is turned off. In short, there is no reason to be concerned about using your SCR truck in cold weather.

A loader we have a work has a DEF heater tied into the block heater, so as long as it is plugged in, the DEF stays above freezing.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

What I am talking about is the storage of the DEF on the fuel trucks used to fuel construction equipment in the field. So, what are they doing down south to keep the DEF stored from reaching 86F, up north in the winter?

 

[Jim Timber]

Yep, Northern folks have a problem. We see weeks below 12F at a time and we're not even into the arctic circle. Heck, we're 6 hours from Canada.

So when you're out logging your timber and you need to fill up - you put your barrel of DEF by the burn barrel to thaw it - oh crap! It just got over 86F on the hot side...

For that matter, the engine compartment is routinely well over this temperature on virtually every automobile I've ever owned, and the hydraulic fluid gets well above that as well on my tractor when heavily used.

 

[MHarryE]

People around here with DEF tractors (CNH mainly) say they have no problem. DEF is such a small volume compared to fuel that they keep their 2.5 gallon containers in the shop. I don't know anyone with an over 200 HP tractor for daily winter work. The large tractors ditch in the machine shed for the winter.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

The interesting thing is the system works like mentioned above. However, like the article title"care and feeding" has changed. Condition of the fuel and care to maintain condition and quality of the DPF. Until mentioned above i did not realize DPF storage temp was so low. Now the question is what happens to the DPF when it is stored above the 87? And how long for it to degrade above the 87? You can't tell me the inside of the cab of the tractor does not get over 87 degree in the summer, when not in use, where that 2.5 gals of DPF is stored. The issue of the article being maintenance costs, when the DPF/SCR system messes up its a maintenance issue? No, warranty? Jim Timber, you are correct lots of issues up north with the DPF. I can't say anything about the other extreme down south. Once again like the article said, "it is a customer education issue" I don't have anything with DPF and if i did I would have a whole host of question, Shelf life on the DPF in the tractor over the winter? What should i be doing to maintain the DPF fluid system? Is there a filter? Where is it? When the system messes up it is bad, chances are it won't be under warranty and it is going to be expensive in down time and repair costs.