You need balast or you will trash your front axle!!!! really?

[gladehound]

"You need rear ballast or you will trash your front axle"

I just read this in another thread and have often read similar things in others. It makes sense. After all, adding weight behind the rear axle removes weight from the front axle. I've always just accepted this statement... until now.

The reason I began doubting the validity of this is because the amount of rear ballast most people use is not enough to change the weight on the front axle substantially when a heavy load is lifted. I struggle to believe that a 10% difference in weight on the front axle is going to trash it.

If you don't get what I'm saying, let me give an example:

My tractor weighs 6500 pounds with filled rears and FEL and probably has 3,000 pounds on the front axle. If I pick something up with the FEL that is 2000 pounds and it is as far in front of my front axle as my wheel base is long, it adds 4,000 pounds to my front axle for a total of 7,000 pounds on the front axle. Now, if I had a 1,000 pound ballast box on my 3pt hitch, it would be about 1/2 a wheel base behind my rear axle. As such it would remove 500 pounds from the front axle and I would then have 6500 pounds on my front axle. Even a 2,000 pound weight box would only lighten the front by 1,000 pounds. So 6,000 pounds on the front instead of 7,000 pounds.

Even the 2,000 pound weight box doesn't make a big difference in the amount of weight on the front axle. Given this, I'm beginning to doubt the claim that you will trash your front axle without a counter weight.

Interested in Thoughts and or experience with what front axles have survived or not survived. My guess is that some tractors have over built front axles and it makes little difference while other s have under built front axles that will have problems regardless of what you do. Any experiences?

 

[davesl708]

Rear ballast does take some load off the front. More importantly it helps with steering and handling. It keeps my rear tires on the ground when I have a full load. Also, reduces tipping when driving with a load. Improves traction when digging or climbing hills.

 

[stuckmotor]

All I can say is that, in wet weather, if I have a bale on the front forks I like to have a bale on the double spears at the back to improve traction.

 

[gladehound]

Don't get me wrong, I like lots of weight on the rear. I have 1000 pounds of fill in the rears, a 200 pound brush cage and 400 pounds of iron ~18" behind the rear axle. Factor in the 100 pounds I transfer from the front and I'm running 1,700 extra pounds on the rear and the tractor is very stable. If I need more weight I add additional weight to the 3pt hitch in the form of an implement or weights. My tires are also set reasonably wide etc. I like stability. But all of that is irrelevant to the question at hand - what's the real world impact on the front axle of not having a 3pt counter weight on when doing loader work.

Here's my every day set up. I like it because 1,700 pounds is enough to keep the rear planted and because it is right over or very close to the rear axle it keeps my front nice and heavy for digging in dirt and steering in snow. Plus it doesn't stick out at all so no maneuverability issues like you can have with a 3pt counter weight.

 

[tcartwri]

I've never understood this logic either. When you run ballast you increase the lifting capacity of the loader and in turn increase the stress on the front axle. Now if you do a front wheelie and the entire machines weight is transferred to the front... Obviously a different story.

 

[4570Man]

I think you can actually apply more weight to the front axel with proper ballast. Try lifting a heavy load without ballast and the tractor simply tips over. Proper ballast allows you to lift the full capacity of the loader.

 

[gladehound]

I've never understood this logic either. When you run ballast you increase the lifting capacity of the loader and in turn increase the stress on the front axle. Now if you do a front wheelie and the entire machines weight is transferred to the front... Obviously a different story.

shortly after I bought my current property I bought a 20hp Kioti LB1914. I didn't know the property and was trucking through 2 ft of grass with a load of gravel when suddenly the front dropped into a ditch and the rear came off the ground. At one point didn't know if I would go full over the front till the bucket touched down or if it would go back onto the rear wheels. It did land back on the rears. I had filled rears and a back blade on.

The full 4600 pounds (tractor, loader, fill, back blade, me, load of gravel) was not only balance on the front axle, but that axle was slammed into a ditch hard enough to put the tractor in that seesaw position.

I thought for sure I broke the front axle. I didn't. Ran the tractor another 9 years before selling it and never had an issue. Front axle was stronger than I thought it was.

 

[GManBart]

Now, if I had a 1,000 pound ballast box on my 3pt hitch, it would be about 1/2 a wheel base behind my rear axle. As such it would remove 500 pounds from the front axle and I would then have 6500 pounds on my front axle. Even a 2,000 pound weight box would only lighten the front by 1,000 pounds. So 6,000 pounds on the front instead of 7,000 pounds.

Even the 2,000 pound weight box doesn't make a big difference in the amount of weight on the front axle.

So you're guessing, and basing a theory on it? How about actual numbers, because the statement above isn't how the physics work out.


This thread had a nice spreadsheet on the topic....

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ng-ballast-hitch-post2977896.html#post2977896

Another with specific examples showing how weight was removed from the front axle by adding 3pt weight.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...-distribution-free-post973991.html#post973991

 

[4570Man]

That simply isn't how the physics work. The rear axle is the center of rotation. If you were to put a 1,000lb ballast box on the 3pt hitch, it's probably somewhere around 36" behind the rear axle. You now have 3,000lb/ft of torque raising the front axle.

Not true because the front axle is some distance in front of the rear axle. Pretending that the rear axle is a pivot point and the rest of the tractor didn't exist there would be 3000 pounds of toque applied to it, but not nearly that much applied to the front axle. Most cuts have less than 3,000 pounds on the front axle, but yet can lift 1000 pounds or more on the 3 point hitch without lifting the front.

 

[GManBart]

Not true because the front axle is some distance in front of the rear axle. Pretending that the rear axle is a pivot point and the rest of the tractor didn't exist there would be 3000 pounds of toque applied to it, but not nearly that much applied to the front axle. Most cuts have less than 3,000 pounds on the front axle, but yet can lift 1000 pounds or more on the 3 point hitch without lifting the front.

I edited my comment for clarity, but the rear axle is still the pivot point, and the amount of torque applied is the same. No, it wouldn't take 3,000lbs off the front axle, but I didn't claim it would.