Understanding Diesel fuel with my sub compact tractor in winter.

   / Understanding Diesel fuel with my sub compact tractor in winter. #1  

AxleHub

Elite Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2011
Messages
2,550
Location
Western Wisconsin
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Massey scut 2015 GC1715
I find I'm trying to learn more about Diesel fuel than I would have guessed and I've developed more than 1 or 2 questions about it.

I always thought "gelling" of Diesel was simply a temperature that caused Diesel to thicken. But recently I learned that Diesel fuel oil has a wax additive added to it when it is produced (at manufacture) . The purpose of the wax is to add lubrication or "lubricity" to engines. To be clear. . This is a manufacture additive. . NOT. . a brand additive. And cold temperatures causes the wax to get cloudy and fall out of suspension.

so additives get added at distribution or brand or retail or user levels to keep the wax suspended either by mixing crane or no 1 fuel oil to it.

Question 1. When Diesel oil gets "gelled up" does it permanently get effected. . . or just return again to original once temperature is raised or cetane added ?

Question 2. Adding cetane to Diesel fuel makes it safe to use in winters like our winter Wisconsin temperatures creates. But Power Services warns that the cetane versions be used only to 35 degrees and below. So Wisconsin weather isn't predictable like that. Having Power Services or similar product in fuel at 45 degrees isn't desired but it is at 20 ??? What does cetane do to a tractor at 40 or 45 0r 50 degrees?

Question 3. If you have Diesel in tanks or cans that is subject to cold temp changes that vary greatly . . .what do others do?
 
   / Understanding Diesel fuel with my sub compact tractor in winter. #2  
I find I'm trying to learn more about Diesel fuel than I would have guessed and I've developed more than 1 or 2 questions about it.

I always thought "gelling" of Diesel was simply a temperature that caused Diesel to thicken. But recently I learned that Diesel fuel oil has a wax additive added to it when it is produced (at manufacture) . The purpose of the wax is to add lubrication or "lubricity" to engines. To be clear. . This is a manufacture additive. . NOT. . a brand additive. And cold temperatures causes the wax to get cloudy and fall out of suspension.

so additives get added at distribution or brand or retail or user levels to keep the wax suspended either by mixing crane or no 1 fuel oil to it.

Question 1. When Diesel oil gets "gelled up" does it permanently get effected. . . or just return again to original once temperature is raised or cetane added ?

Question 2. Adding cetane to Diesel fuel makes it safe to use in winters like our winter Wisconsin temperatures creates. But Power Services warns that the cetane versions be used only to 35 degrees and below. So Wisconsin weather isn't predictable like that. Having Power Services or similar product in fuel at 45 degrees isn't desired but it is at 20 ??? What does cetane do to a tractor at 40 or 45 0r 50 degrees?

Question 3. If you have Diesel in tanks or cans that is subject to cold temp changes that vary greatly . . .what do others do?

AxelHub,

After 35+ years of driving Truck OTR and 8+ years of owning a diesel tractor, I would like to share this advice.

I use Power Service in the white bottle to PRE TREAT my fuel. I use a little more than the recommended amount, just to be safe. (Up to double amount will not harm your engine, it is just wasteful.) In the fall, I make sure that the tractor tank is FULL, and I add the recommended amount of PS to it. I also add it to my 5 gal storage cans that I keep in the shed. That way when I add fuel in the winter is is ready to go. Just my 2 cents worth.

As to your questions,
1) IF your fuel gets gelled, it is NOT permanent. When the temperature gets warmer it will return to normal. (Prevent that with pretreating fuel.)

2) Adding cetane to fuel does NOT change the point of clouding or gelling. It only changes the POWER in the fuel. to change the cloud point and gell point you need to use additives. (I prefer Power Service, as I have had the best results with that.)

3) I always pre treat my fuel for winter use. In summer, I do not use additives unless I think I have moisture in the fuel. (Proper filtering when adding fuel to tractor SHOULD prevent this.)

An added tip for you: IF you forget to pre treat your fuel and it gets gelled, use Power Service in the RED bottle (called 911). When I have had to use it, I used about 50% more than recommended to get faster results hen it was -30 in Montana. Let it set for about 20 minutes, then try to start engine. Let is run for about 10 to 15 minutes to get things circulating in the fuel system. Then run as usual.

My disclaimer is that this is what has worked FOR ME ! ! All you can do is try to pre treat your fuel. If you forget, try my suggestions OR your own best guess, and go from there.

I hope my 2 cents worth will be helpful to you.

Dave
 
   / Understanding Diesel fuel with my sub compact tractor in winter. #3  
A bunch of articles about cetane. Pepsiboy covered all your questions but Google searches produces a lot of results like this about cetane. What Cetane Value Does in Diesel Engines

I top off my tractor's tank for the winter to reduce the amount of condensing water inside the tank. I may add a winter diesel additive. Note that I use my tractor in the winter if I am moving manure once a month, clearing fence lines or once every 10 years pushing some snow. Generally my tracor sits. I have had biodiesel gell in my car. It took about 4 days for it to ungel. Basically the car sat in the garage once I got it home until it warmed up outside. I have never had pump dino-diesel gell and we have had a few cold snaps every winter where I live. Cold defined as 0F to 10F. Not cold like I used to get living up in Ohio.
 
   / Understanding Diesel fuel with my sub compact tractor in winter. #4  
:2cents:
I add Power Service in the white bottle to all my diesel year round. Low cost to add cetane and extra lube. I filter the fuel with Mr Funnel to get the junk out.
Amazed at how much crud is in the diesel around here.
I use about 20-25 gallons of diesel per year in my subcompact. Store it in 5-gal. cans.

I am never sure what type of fuel (1or 2) is at my station so PS is a little insurance.
 
   / Understanding Diesel fuel with my sub compact tractor in winter.
  • Thread Starter
#5  
:2cents:
I add Power Service in the white bottle to all my diesel year round. Low cost to add cetane and extra lube. I filter the fuel with Mr Funnel to get the junk out.
Amazed at how much crud is in the diesel around here.
I use about 20-25 gallons of diesel per year in my subcompact. Store it in 5-gal. cans.

I am never sure what type of fuel (1or 2) is at my station so PS is a little insurance.

I also use a Mr. Funnel (I have one for gas and 1 for diesel). I also have a group of heavy plastic bottles that are nearly clear. . . so I can see in them easily. . And I definitely see little contaminants on occasion regardless where I get fuels.

I notice Power Service instructions is pretty firm on not using the white bottle product above 40 degrees F but does not say anything about the storing of Power Service temperaure. One of the things that's always tough for me is to immediately put cetane in my cans when I get home right away so I don't offer which has been treated. It's real easy for our are to go from a warm and sunny 40 degrees to a 0 to 10 degree temp in late afternoon to evening and then snow fall in the morning when you might need that fresh fuel lol.


If the white bottle doesn't hurt the engine in warmer conditions. . I wonder why they have the warmer temp product?
 
   / Understanding Diesel fuel with my sub compact tractor in winter.
  • Thread Starter
#6  
:2cents:
I add Power Service in the white bottle to all my diesel year round. Low cost to add cetane and extra lube. I filter the fuel with Mr Funnel to get the junk out.
Amazed at how much crud is in the diesel around here.
I use about 20-25 gallons of diesel per year in my subcompact. Store it in 5-gal. cans.

I am never sure what type of fuel (1or 2) is at my station so PS is a little insurance.

I also use a Mr. Funnel (I have one for gas and 1 for diesel). I also have a group of heavy plastic bottles that are nearly clear. Where I put the left over couple ounces each time I use the funnel . . so I can see in them easily. . And I definitely see little contaminants on occasion regardless where I get fuels.

I notice Power Service instructions is pretty firm on not using the white bottle product above 40 degrees F but does not say anything about the storing of Power Service temperaure. One of the things that's always tough for me is to immediately put cetane in my cans when I get home right away so I don't offer which has been treated. It's real easy for our are to go from a warm and sunny 40 degrees to a 0 to 10 degree temp in late afternoon to evening and then snow fall in the morning when you might need that fresh fuel lol.


If the white bottle doesn't hurt the engine in warmer conditions. . I wonder why they have the warmer temp product?
 
   / Understanding Diesel fuel with my sub compact tractor in winter.
  • Thread Starter
#7  
Duplicate
 
   / Understanding Diesel fuel with my sub compact tractor in winter. #8  
I also use a Mr. Funnel (I have one for gas and 1 for diesel). I also have a group of heavy plastic bottles that are nearly clear. . . so I can see in them easily. . And I definitely see little contaminants on occasion regardless where I get fuels.

I notice Power Service instructions is pretty firm on not using the white bottle product above 40 degrees F but does not say anything about the storing of Power Service temperaure. One of the things that's always tough for me is to immediately put cetane in my cans when I get home right away so I don't offer which has been treated. It's real easy for our are to go from a warm and sunny 40 degrees to a 0 to 10 degree temp in late afternoon to evening and then snow fall in the morning when you might need that fresh fuel lol.


If the white bottle doesn't hurt the engine in warmer conditions. . I wonder why they have the warmer temp product?




I contacted PS by email. They stated no problem running year round. I use the white bottle "Diesel Fuel Supplement". It states for year round use.
 
   / Understanding Diesel fuel with my sub compact tractor in winter. #9  
The local supplier treats the fuel when they receive it.....I've never worried about it or had a problem with it.

Ed
 
   / Understanding Diesel fuel with my sub compact tractor in winter. #10  
I'm a retired chemical engineer who worked in the lubricating oil industry for 31 years. Wax is not added to diesel fuel. The refiners may blend a waxy diesel with one that isn't very waxy to get the cloud point on spec. Some crude oils actually have no wax.

Question 1. When Diesel oil gets "gelled up" does it permanently get effected. No. Wax formation causes the gelling. Warm it up, and the wax melts. Wax itself would make marvelous lubricating oil. Only trouble is wax will gel at or above ambient temperature in the summer.

Question 2. Adding cetane to Diesel fuel makes it safe to use in winters like our winter Wisconsin temperatures creates. But Power Services warns that the cetane versions be used only to 35 degrees and below. So Wisconsin weather isn't predictable like that. Having Power Services or similar product in fuel at 45 degrees isn't desired but it is at 20 ??? What does cetane do to a tractor at 40 or 45 0r 50 degrees? I wouldn't mess with any cetane additives.

Question 3. If you have Diesel in tanks or cans that is subject to cold temp changes that vary greatly . . .what do others do? Wax will gel in the tanks, just like it will in your tractor's tank.

I use an additive, think it's white Power Service bottle. Only takes about 0.15% of it in the diesel to greatly lower the gel point, but read the bottle for dosage. I've a diesel generator in addition to my tractor. The diesel generator has a 60 gallon tank. I put Power Service into every container of diesel that I put into the tank. Often just pump some out and use it directly in my tractor.

You STILL may get some wax globs formed in your tractor's tank. This can happen at temps below about 10 F. Happened to me on my first tractor. You either have to warm all the fuel up to melt the gas globs or remove them. I siphoned the tank and then fished out the globs that were almost clogging the outlet from the fuel tank. The old timers solution to wax gelling or wax globs was to put 1/3 to 1/2 kerosene in their tanks in the winter. This can help, but your tractor will use more fuel because the kero doesn't have as much density and therefore BTU. In the lubricating oil industry, we use hot kerosene in our propane dewaxing processes to melt wax from filter cloths used to remove wax from lubricating oil. It has to be at least around 180 F though.

If your tractor stalls after being started cold, wax is likely plugging up on your fuel filter. If you have a hair drier or way to make steam, you could apply the heat to the fuel filter and possibly the line to it from the tank to get the tractor to run. Once the tractor warms up, and if the fuel filter is mounted up next to the engine block, the tractor will keep running.
 
 
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