Trencher... buy, rent, or hire

[Fallon]

Do not buy a trencher unless you have HST. I have a Bradco that I bought in 2006, I now have a HST that I bought in 2007 because my previous tractor was gear driven and did not like me riding the clutch.

I agree. I picked up a 3pt trencher (Bradco as well) for a hair over $1,500. 36" depth on it, which is the frost line around here, so probably won't do any water with it. Will flip it after a few more jobs for me & friends. I do tractor work on the side but insurance for digging is about 8-10 times what a landscape policy is, so no commercial trenching for me.

Anyway, you NEED HST to run a 3pt trencher. No way you can get a steady foot or 2 per minute of speed out of a geared machine. Even with HST I stall mine a bit.

 

[Dadnatron]

I've looked into 3pt PTO trenchers, and as much as I'd like to get one, I agree and think I'd not like it because of my need to clutch.

This is one of the reasons I was thinking about just going purpose built with a ride on trencher.

I don't think the 'Dingo' type would be enough for the amount I need to do. I will need to do at least a couple miles (over my entire farm) and I will need to have something big enough to drop in a 6" tile pipe. I don't think the Dingo sized machines would do what I need, at the depth and length I need, in a reasonable timeframe.

Does anyone know whether there is a 'typical' chain digging width? I know you can get different chains and they rely on differenty types and patterns of teeth, but on something the size of a Vermeer 4750, does anyone have an idea on the typical chain/cutting width?

Also, when laying pipe, cable, etc, is there a typical ratio of 'trench width:width of what is being buried'?

 

[Old Red]

I've looked into 3pt PTO trenchers, and as much as I'd like to get one, I agree and think I'd not like it because of my need to clutch.

This is one of the reasons I was thinking about just going purpose built with a ride on trencher.

I don't think the 'Dingo' type would be enough for the amount I need to do. I will need to do at least a couple miles (over my entire farm) and I will need to have something big enough to drop in a 6" tile pipe. I don't think the Dingo sized machines would do what I need, at the depth and length I need, in a reasonable timeframe.

Does anyone know whether there is a 'typical' chain digging width? I know you can get different chains and they rely on differenty types and patterns of teeth, but on something the size of a Vermeer 4750, does anyone have an idea on the typical chain/cutting width?

Also, when laying pipe, cable, etc, is there a typical ratio of 'trench width:width of what is being buried'?

Gotcha..I'm with ya now. You actually have some heavy duty work to do. Then I think the easy answer is to get your own vs. hiring it out and hopefully recoup most of your money when you are finished.

 

[D2Cat]

Dadnatron, based on what you indicated you need to do, I would advise you to forget the idea of getting a 3pt backhoe attachment for a tractor.

Find a used trencher with a digging boom on one end and a backhoe on the other. It is a complete machine. Dig a hole with the backhoe, dig a trench with the boom, and you have a backfill blade to push any dirt back where it came from. And, by the way, backfilling with a backfill blade is WAY faster than doing the same job with the loader on a tractor!

A typical trencher has spacers you can bolt to the chain in various positions to get a wider trench. (I am familiar with Ditch Witch trenchers, so I'll speak from my experience with them.) The standard trench width is 6". That's what they call it, but it's really more like five, but it's plenty wide enough to put a 4" PVC pipe in without any interference. Spacers can make the trench from the standard 6" to 8", 10" or 12". However, after 10" almost always a backhoe is used.

When you have a trencher (ride on) you have a machine made to adjust to ground conditions. It has a "creeper" which is a hydraulic motor control and allows the machine movement speed to meet digging requirements. You select the chain speed by the transmission gear when in digging mode.

The link to the machine you posted is more than you need. I'd suggest something simpler, and will be less cost. Here's the direction I'd send you. These machines are not complicated, do a lot of work and will hold their valve because of what they will do and have been depreciated out without being wore out!

Ditch Witch 4 Backhoe Trencher | eBay

Craig's List in your area: Trencher w/backhoe - farm & garden - by owner - sale

 

[Dadnatron]

D2cat,

Thanks! that is great information and very helpful in many regards.

In your estimation, what are the things which I need to be sure to check out and what typically goes bad? Is there anything which would immediately make you simply walk away? Are there things which are typical, but would likely be "OK" given my needs and Likely use? How would you go about a purchase? ie, if you can't 'dig a trench and a hole'? I've found a page which helps tell me what to look for, however, I still am not sure whether there are things to walk away from or to 'overlook as not important' in this regard.

How to confidently buy a used trencher

My goal is simply to save the significant money I'd have to pay to hire this out in my location, over the next several years.

And, do you have any idea whether there are any 'mechanics' who do 'check up' type evaluations on these things? I can take a car to my mechanic, however, I don't know whether there is anything similar or whether there is a liklihood that I could contact someone, and have them use their skill to check out a machine and give me their 'thumbs up or down'. I'd pay of course. But do you have any idea how someone like that might react if I cold called him and said, "I'll pay you $100 to go with me and check out this/these trenchers and give me your opinion."

And finally, is there a 'size' of which you would recommend staying above/below? For my stated needs? Something which will do the job as intended and not be overkill nor underbuilt.

BTW: Linked one from CL is $8000 asking, around 3000hrs and works normally according to the owner.

Saw another locally on eBay, bit bigger, and potentially what you are trying to steer me away from. 1500hrs $10K asking eBay Vermeer 5750 But it has Only a few TEETH on the chain in the pics. How much to add enough teeth to a chain like that to get it working optimally?

 

[Tags]

The best money you could spend would be to hire a local heavy equipment mechanic either on the clock or after hours to go and have a look at it with you. Just call around or talk to friends with heavy equipment and ask who they would recommend. Ideally you would want to warm the unit up and be able to trench with it a bit to get things hot and make sure there are no major leaks, hydraulics stalling, excessive engine smoking, bogging, blow by, and that it operates as it should. All that will be very hard to do if you're looking at it in a place you can't "dig".

 

[D2Cat]

About the teeth on that Vermeer 5750 you linked to. I can't see the teeth real clearly. However a trencher chain uses the very same teeth except there are right and left teeth. They're in different positions on the chain.

Example, when looking at the chain one tooth will be bolted inside and facing in, the next tooth will be inside facing in but opposite tooth (right or left). The next link tooth would be outside facing in right and left, then outside facing in, then outside facing out.

This is somewhat confusing until you actually see the chain, looking down at the teeth. You can then see how the machine digs a narrow trench (with the inside mounted facing inside) the wider, and wider and wider until you get the width of the trench required.

Depending on digging conditions you can space the teeth as required. As an example, if you have the teeth close together and digging in damp clay the teeth won't clean themselves and you end up with a mess!

You'll sometimes see points or tips that look like bullets on the teeth. Those are special teeth designed for working in rock.

Adding teeth to a chain is quite simple. Two bolts per tooth. Teeth probably around $5 each, to give you an idea.

Now you're really confused!!

 

[D2Cat]

Like Tags mentioned, finding someone to help is imperative. Might check with your local county road dept. They may have a trencher they use from time to time. Or ask the supervisor if he knows someone who can evaluate a machine. You have any personal friends who might be able to help or they know someone? You might be able to find a mechanic who works at a rental yard to help.

When you get a machine located you have interest in be sure to start it when the engine is cold. You don't want to let them know you're going to be there in half and hour, and they go get the machine warmed up for you. See how it starts cold.

Ask a lot of questions before going to look. Hours, condition of machine, engine, tires, chain, last maintenance performed, why you selling it. I always like to ask what did you like about it? What was the most frustrating part of owning in?

Use every part of the machine. Check the digging boom, check to see how much slack he has in the chain, does it shift in and out of road gear easily, does it shift into and out of "creep" easily. Use the backhoe to see how much slop in any pins. All this is way your assistant can do for you. But cut a trench, dig a hole with the hoe, backfill with the blade. Check to see if it's a 6way, if so be sure it all works. Check for hyd. leaks. etc.

 

[EddieWalker]

I have a full sized 555E New Holland backhoe that has been very useful for a variety of things, but I still rented trenchers for long runs and sometimes, short runs. I was going to buy a walk behind one, but never found what I felt was a good deal. And then while at an auction hoping to get a good deal on a grapple, which didn't happen, a Ditch Witch riding trencher came up and I was able to get it for $3,000 It has a blade in front, Duetz Diesel engine and I think about 2,600 hours. I replaced the teeth and probably only use it once or twice a year, but when I do, it's awesome. I have several big jobs planned for it, but there is no telling when they will happen. That blade in the front is the best thing every for filling in the ditch. Nothing else comes close!!!!

Eventually I will probably sell it, but who knows when. It was cheap enough that I don't think I can ever lose money on it. Rental companies all sell their equipment when they get to 2,000 hours, give or take. Find out where and eventually you'll hit it on the right day when the deals are happening!!!!

 

[GSVette]

This the exact reason I bought a used Case 580E-when we get done building I could very likely sell it for more than I paid for it. It is certainly more versatile than a trencher and allows (as it is an extendahoe) very deep digging (for example septic tank install, cisterns, etc)