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  1. #21

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
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    549
    Location
    Goshen, NY
    Tractor
    JD 790

    Default Re: Between a rock and soft dirt

    "Maybe I've misunderstood you, but pulling from a high point on the tractor, such as the ROPS, is the surest way to flip the tractor. A local man was killed in my area just last year doing that. Any time you pull with the tractor (or are pulled) you must attach at the center line of rear axle or lower to avoid flipping. "

    Yes you could pull it from the rear axle but depending on how it slides it still can flip. Look at the 2nd picture again and see if you don't agree??? If I tie right to the ROPS at fenderheight there is no way it flips. The worst that might happen is the tractor starts to lean towards the direction it is being pulled and you have to back off a little and go for a second attachment point.

    Sure if you pull the top of the tractor when it's on level ground it could flip real easy but this is a little different. Also I am not really referring to the top, but more correctly the upper half of the tractor(botttom of the ROPS)
    When it's leaning way over like it is in the picture pulling from a little higher might make sense. Think about it, if you wanted to pull this \ on angle up a slope you'd pull from the bottom???? Maybe I am just picturing the tractor being tugged uphill more on a "sideways" angle than in reverse as it sounds like you are picturing it being pulled. As long as the front swings downhill and doesn't catch and flip, pulling it up from the rear axle in reverse will work as you suggest. Not so sure on a hill like that how it will go, and what the angle of attack for the "tow" vehicle would have to be. Doesn't look like you can pull it in a straight line from the back in picture 2 does it??? If I could I still think I would just wrap the strap through the big FEl mount and bottom of the ROPS and pul it up sideways, but my tracor only weighs >3000lbs and my trucks almost 3 times that so it would be easy. There was another poster not too long ago who tried pulling from the lowest point while stuck on a steep sidehill almost exactly like this one and it flipped. The tractor is leaning way over... north of the center of the tractor, near the bottom of the ROPS would seem like a safer pull than down near the bottom. I also suggested he pull it with something around 8000lbs like a one ton truck. With a the truck connected to the lower part of the ROPS there's no way it's going to flip. In order for it to "flip" down the hill as you suggest the top would have to go down hill first, not likely when the middle of the ROPS is tied to an 8000lb. object anchored on good level ground.

    Maybe we're both right, lets split the difference and attach straps to the bottom of the ROPS and the axle so we've got both angles covered [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

  2. #22

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    549
    Location
    Goshen, NY
    Tractor
    JD 790

    Default Re: Between a rock and soft dirt

    "If you pulled from the drawbar it might cause the tractor to roll on its own...sort of just the opposite of pulling something with the tractor from the rops..."

    Yes Henro,

    That's exactly it.

    I based my post on past experience. I tried pulling a Chevy Suburban (much more stable than most tractors) from a similar predicament. Being an automobile my choices for attaching were limited to the Subs frame area. A couple of good pulls with my F350 an it started to look like it might tumble down the hill. The uphill side unweighted, the downhill side sunk and it got ugly quickly. It became apparent I could get him out but whether it was wheels up or down was questionable [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img], at that point I backed off and a wrecker (read: insured helper) came and got him out.


    The bill for the wrecker,a stern warning from the police not to trespass on my neighbors property plus some nasty damage to Dad's Sub completed a rotten night for the teenage driver looking for a place to "be alone" with his girl [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

  3. #23
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    721
    Location
    MAINE
    Tractor
    ISEKI TL3201 38h.p. 4x4

    Default Re: Between a rock and soft dirt

    I DON'T KNOW WHAT U GUYS R THINKING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    ASK ANY MANUFACTURER AN HE WILL TELL U THAT A ROPS IS NOT TO B PULLED ON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!PERIOD !!!!!!!!!!!!!EVER!!!!..............IF U THINK I'M YELLING AT U NOW THEN I GUESS YER LISTENING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!CUZ U R RIGHT I AM DADGUMN YELLING...AND WAHT HAPPENS IF U STRAIN THE ROPS!!!!!!!! AND LATERON DOWN THE ROAD U DIDN'T NOTICE THE SLIGHT CREASE THAT U PUT IN THE ROPS AND YER SON ROLLLED IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AND IT FOLDED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HOW'D U FEEL THEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    PERSONALLY ANY sound minded operator THAT READ MY PREVIOUS POST AND IGNORED THE SAFEST THING TO DO SHOULD be very careful how he rigs anything...period...what are your loads???? what are your line and cable strengths..how much tippability do u have???how much actual load bearing ground do u have under yer cut..yer already on the precipice of tippin over ..what will the ground below support..ALL I'M ASKIN IS THAT ALL OF U GUYS THINK FIRST !!!PLEASE...IF NOT FOR YOURSELVES BUT FOR YOUR LOVED ONES!!!!!

    I AM NOT JOKING!!!!

    THIS IS a very serious matter that......... personally was a very lucky situation as far as the outcome..yes he went slow...but the shear point of the !!!!!!!!!!!!!1/4" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cable and hook!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i know u didn't use a shackle!!!!!!!!!
    on either end!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    was way to low and close to the breaking point for any situation that i would ever wanna put myself or any others for that matter!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you always tie high!!!!!...and especially in the case of a bhoe!!!! you not only have the ability to adjust yer center of gravity...via the hoe!!!! U GUYS R KILLING ME AND I WILL NOT STAND BY WHILE INCORRECT ADVICE IS IMPROPERLY GIVEN!!!!! U NEVER TIE TO A ROPS............PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!PARAGRAPH!!!!!!!! !! END!!!!


    I will Leave this string with a pic of one of my 2.5 ton straps...(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!oh yeah and thats only on a basket!!!!!!) and how much more forgiving a properly taken care of nylon strap is vs. a steel choker as far as the loss of lifting weight on a choke!!!!....i will git into this !!!!MUCH DEEPER later..

    BY THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!ON THE JOB THAT I JUST FINISHED UP HERE IN MAINE!!!!!!...........at the jay paper mill on paper machine our biggest lift was OVER!!!!!! 78,000LBS.!!!!!!!..
    AND THE 2 CHOKERS WE USED WERE RATED FOR 100K APIECE!!!!!!!!!!THATS MORE THAN TWICE THE LOAD LIFT RATING!!! YYYYYYY!!!SAFETY FIRST!!!WE COULD'VE USED TWO BLUE 40,000 LBER'S..SO WHY NOT...BE SAFE!!!ITS JUST YOUR LIFE AND I DON'T HAVE AN EXTRA ONE OF THOSE TO SPARE!!DON'T KNOW BOUT YA'LL BUT I'LL SAY ONE THING...

    MOST OF U HAVE ONE THING I DO NOT!!!!AND MANY TIMES I WISH I HAD CHILDREN!!!! BUT I'LL BE DADGUMNED IF ANY ONE OF U PASS CUZ OF MY BAD ADVICE ...LESS OF COURSE YA'LL WILL ME YER CUT'S [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]..AHD TO BREAK UP MY RAMPAGE JIST A LIDDLE..SORRY GUYS...IF U ONLY KNOW HOW I FEEL AND THE 2 FELLOW LINEMEN THAT IF I'D JIST BEEN 1/4 OF A MILE FARTHER DOWN THE ROAD I COULD HAVE STOPPED FROM PASSING!!!!

    DONT EVER TELL ME BOUT RIGGIN AND YES IM P'D OFF

    i am sorry to all those that r in the wanna know..but i will not stand by while fallacious advice is being handed out!!!!


    EVER!!!!!..i've quit $40.oo hr jobs because of this "!!!!!!STUFF!!!!!!"...am i adament..dadgumn straight when i know that a fellow man could die ...it's not like putting the wrong oil/lube/spark plugs/glowplugs in............... this stuff that wer'e tokkn bout is life and death to me!!!!!!!!

    todd ..the rigger/lineman/iron worker from liddl ol nowhere and knows nuthin MAINE

    heres the pic of the strap for any of u that really wanna know!!!!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #24

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    549
    Location
    Goshen, NY
    Tractor
    JD 790

    Default Re: Between a rock and soft dirt

    Polecat

    GET BACK ON YER' MEDS!

    My training is in another field, but heres' one lesson I'll share with you: when one is confronted with an EDP (emotionally disturbed person) it is imperative that you maintain a zone of safety. This may explain why others tend to give you plenty of space, and with that in mind, I must end my conversation with this last post. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

    Someone pays YOU $40 an hour, man you're not the only crazy one in your field??? Does it come with a stipulation that you refrain from speaking??

    By the way I use a nice soft 5" by 35 foot strap that is rated for 30,000lbs. It has has plenty of stretch, pulling my 3000lb. tractor will not even bring it taught. If you think it's going to crease the ROPS on my tractor, you must have dropped the FEL on your head.

    Please relax with the dramatics. I am surprised to hear that you are a rigger/lineman. No insult intended to others in your field, but after reading your post I could have sworn you were an English professor. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

  5. #25
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    721
    Location
    MAINE
    Tractor
    ISEKI TL3201 38h.p. 4x4

    Default Re: Between a rock and soft dirt

    SEEMS TO ME THAT u don't keep to what u say ...i know what field u r in mayb u ought to think about the advice u give...
    (some of it correct):IE: tie high.......(some of it very wrong!!!!):IE..tie to your rops!!!!!!! junkman where ru tonite!!!!!...........and yes u r right on one other note!!!...the majority of men in my field are a little touched!!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]
    If u think swinging...200'-3000' in the air side to side from anywhere from 10' -30' while upwards of 500kv. is 30' below u is fun ....then you'll know what i mean...otherwise keep yer white knuckles away from our edp type ..and let US>>>keep all of U>>>on the grid..when things like hurricanes and tornadoes hit!!!!...and by the way ...for a qualified travellin lineman $40.00 hr is straight time!!!!!...do u wanna git on a crew...or should i send u some meds first!!!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    where'd u git yer strap???off of a medcu truck??? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
    how old is it and can it still stand the 15 ton's and would u stand under it while it held that load today????..How's a $100.00 bet says u wouldnt...has it ever been in the sun...would u ever hitch 1/4" strand or cable to yer rops...

    Mayb as one in "YOUR" field ..u should think about the advice u give!!!! meds or not!!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    by the way ???is yer strap yellow...????i'll bet it is!!!if not post a pic..and maybe u can help me out with the rigging...ropes...and knots string that i'm in the process of doing.... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img].............and no i've never dropped my fel on my head!!!!!lmao!!!yer my kinda person!!!even tho in an adverse situation u kin still b hysterically funny!!!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]jist like my grandad always said"
    [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  6. #26
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    721
    Location
    MAINE
    Tractor
    ISEKI TL3201 38h.p. 4x4

    Default Re: Between a rock and soft dirt

    [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]jist remind me to never drive thru goshen!!!!!!!!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] and ifn i eva do !!!!i'll b keepin my eye out fer a F350!!!!!!!!!!!
    [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    BY THE WAY ...WHAT COLOR ISIT!!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
    MINE IS BLUE WITH IRREDESCENT STRIPES!!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  7. #27

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    549
    Location
    Goshen, NY
    Tractor
    JD 790

    Default Re: Between a rock and soft dirt

    My truck is a 99 green CC dually with a tan underside. Just havin' some fun with you Polecat [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    By the way my strap (actually have 2 identical straps) is a yellow tow strap not for rigging or lifting. It was the strongest one I could find. No, it probably isn't as strong as it use to be but it has withstood everything I could give it. That said I keep the tailgate up and my toolbox lid raised when I use it just in case. Obviously one day it may fail, I have thought about replacing it this year as over the past 2-3 years it has seen much use.

  8. #28

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Posts
    735
    Location
    Southern Maryland
    Tractor
    Ford 1220, John Deere 770, Case 580E and Allmand TLB-35

    Default Re: Between a rock and soft dirt

    <font color="red"> and yes u r right on one other note!!!...the majority of men in my field are a little touched!!!
    </font> I thought it was more than a few. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] <font color="blue">our biggest lift was OVER!!!!!! 78,000LBS.!!!!!!!..
    AND THE 2 CHOKERS WE USED WERE RATED FOR 100K APIECE!!!!!!!!!!THATS MORE THAN TWICE THE LOAD LIFT RATING!!! YYYYYYY!!!SAFETY FIRST!!! </font> I was taught you use the cable/strap/chain that will lift the whole load by itself. For example, if you're lifting a 10,000 lb crate from four points, EACH strap and shackle would be rated for at least 10,000 lbs, that way any leg will hold the load. You never divide the weight by the number of pick points. <font color="red"> </font> <font color="red"> </font>

  9. #29
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    721
    Location
    MAINE
    Tractor
    ISEKI TL3201 38h.p. 4x4

    Default Re: Between a rock and soft dirt

    just wondering how big the biggest lif yo've ever picked was...this particular lift was one of many very large lifts
    inside of an international paper mill .... i don't know how many of u have ever been inside of a paper mil but this one is huge...the paper machine itself is about 100 yds..not counting winders...rewinders....cutters..all of that stuff.....the bulding is about 200 yds long and has ceilings that are about 75' high......inside the building along the ceilinng run 2 double and one triple overhead crane..now i don't know if you've ever run an over head crane but they are faily simple.....two 50 ton 10 part hoists which can run the the entire length of the building...and go back and forth as well...this entire rebulid had engineers (bout 30) of them from sweden running everywhere as well as about 800(night and day shift) from every trade from millwrights,pipefiters&amp; welders,electricians,carpenters..form and cementworkers(civil crew) ,startup crew, and our rigging crews...some of these pieces have absolutely no pick points and come in huge crates from sweden on tractor trailer trucks and are lifted off of the trucks with 100 ton cranes outside and then moved from there ..others.... the larger pieces were driven right into the building under the #3 paper machine with the tractor trailer..and picked up off of the trailers in the basement
    and hoisted with the overhead cranes 100' above and and brought up onto the operating(2nd) floor where we worked...

    this was a 24hr. 7 day a week job that lasted for 1 1/2 mos.
    it was all go and non stop as it cost I.P. 1.25 million a day to be down....this paper machine is the only one like it in the world.....
    so back to the rigging....with the overhead cranes u have the ability to generall not need spreaders....and are able to basket a lot of the picks...and put them where they need to go..some of the pieces stood a good 30' above the floor as they sat on their blocking awaiting their time to be installed...
    when pick points were provided we used them using a choker in a vertical setup with a shackle(some of the shackles were in excess of 80-100 lbs a piece) with pins in excess of 4")...on both ends of the sling....some of the pieces had corner braces that were made out of stainless that was well over 1' thick plate....most of the internal pieces were over 80' wide and had no pick points..what to do on edges??????? lots of softeners!!!!!pick with always bigger than needed sling and go real slow and always have 2-4 tag lines!!!!

    any more ????'s [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    Todd [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

    ever climg a 2" fiberglass ladder that is swinging 300' up in the air and suspended by 2 3/4 inch hooks on top and hung off of the rail of a transmission tower bridge with a 25 m.p.h. breeze blowing to make sure tha all of the cotter pins are going the same way in a 20' string of bell and then climb off onto the 2" wires with an 80 lb 3 ton 2 part chain hoist to jack the wire up and out of the 400 lb running block,,,to set the wires in their shoes...
    how bout git in a spacer buggy and go from tower to tower (mountop to mountaintop )literally...to put in the spacers that keep the the wires from hitting each other .....the buggy has 4 rollers one on each corner ..is about 2' wide..3' long with 4' sides and a little 5h.p motor mounted on the outside for propulsion..that has little sprockets attached to the back 2 rollers..give it the gas and yer flyin....every 100'-200 ' gits a spacer..u use a 100' tape hitched onto the last one..go 100' shake it off the last one and tape the tail to the wire and move on to where the next spacer goes..pull hard and break the tape.....put in spacer and put tape back on....."nnow nomad would say!!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]y dontcha use a 200' tape....." ever fly a kitein one hand and run athrottle in the other with 30-40 mph. gusts..yankin on yer kite string while swinging backand forth 10-20' 1000' above the ground [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]....and yes the handle of the tape is tied to the buggy cuz if u drop it it'll be a long ride to the next structure to git it back and then come back to where u left off!!!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
    and u always bring a couple of extra spacers [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


    WHAT DID U THINK????THOSE SPACERS CAME ON THE REEL OF WIRE AND WERE ALREADY INSTALLED????...THIS ISNT ROMEX...TRIPLEX...OR EVEN THE GOOD OL 3 PHASE STUFF...QUADPLEX....AND WE USE A D9 WITH 4 WINCHES ON THE BACK TO GIT THE WIRE CLOSE TO SAG!!!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
    ??HOW DO U GET ALL 4 WINCH LINES UP TO THE PILLOW BLOCKS FOR SAGGING....U DONT!!! THEY ATTACH TO THE TAILS ON THE GROUND [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
    ................well enuff of the tales and times of an old lineman
    here [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]tootaloo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    gotta go take my meds...my hands r shakin!!!! besides i've gotta git back to my francais and espanol classes..they're waitin on me..40 eager students jsit waitin on dis hea wedneck!!![img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
    [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

  10. #30

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Posts
    735
    Location
    Southern Maryland
    Tractor
    Ford 1220, John Deere 770, Case 580E and Allmand TLB-35

    Default Re: Between a rock and soft dirt

    <font color="blue"> just wondering how big the biggest lif yo've ever picked was... </font> Personally, I try never to pick more than 12 ounces at one time. Would hate to be called a HEAVY drinker [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Wasn't picking on you, was just curious what you guys had learned along the way. For me--On the job, biggest was 132,480 lbs. Oddest, lead shielding doors in a nuclear reactor.

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