Backhoe looking to purchase TLB for 30 acre homested

[ofenback]

hello people who know more then me! this is my first post so lemme know if this topic has been discussed before and i'l check out the other threads. i'm looking to pick up a tractor/loader/backhoe for homeowner use here in the Hudson Valley New York. I've gotta pull out ton of stumps, move big rocks, spread stone on my driveway and generally get this place in shape. The issue is that I'm basically on a hillside with about a 1/4 mile of driveway that someone said is at about an 8% grade.

my budget is about 15k and I'm leaning towards a late 80s early 90s John Deere 410, 510 or 710.

i'm specifically looking for opinions regarding HP necessary for pulling buckets of rocks up hill, dragging logs up hill and the best transmission style for it. and of course any other helpful info will be much allreciated. i've spent a few hundred hours on excavators and loaders over the years, but I still consider myself a rookie.

I was looking at a Ford 555B and read some poor reviews so I passed on it. Since then i've been told that 4 x 4 is a must, at least 100 hp, and that a geared transmission is more stable for climbing. For those reasons and a few others i'm leaning towards the JD machines.

I'm sure I'll get as many opinions as there are machines available and I'm looking forward to them. Thanks in advance and hopefully this thread can help anybody else in this situation BEFORE they buy a machine not suited to the tasks.

 

[bdog]

I used to own a 310SJ backhoe. It was a beast but always felt tippy to me. I personally would not want to operate it on steep slopes. You know how to run big machinery have you considered renting a larger excavator to knock out the brunt of the work and then buy a smaller machine to maintain it and do the lighter stuff? I am not sure how many and how big of stumps you are talking about but nothing beats an excavator on stumps. With your budget you are going to be limited in what you can buy in both size and quality. I think it will be difficult to find a large backhoe in the 15k range that isn稚 wore out or a money pit. For what it痴 worth I sold my 310 earlier this year for 47k and it was 8 years old and had over 3000 hrs.

 

[jeff9366]

I used to own a 310SJ backhoe. It was a beast but always felt tippy to me. I personally would not want to operate it on steep slopes.

You know how to run big machinery. Have you considered renting a larger tracked excavator to knock out the brunt of the work and then buy a smaller machine to maintain it and do the lighter stuff? I am not sure how many and how big of stumps you are talking about but nothing beats an excavator on stumps.

With your budget you are going to be limited in what you can buy in both size and quality. I think it will be difficult to find a large backhoe in the 15k range that is in good shape and not a money pit.

Excellent advice. Wheeled tractors are always unstable on slopes doing heavy work. Tracked equipment is much more stable.

Of your thirty acres, how much will need the attention of a tractor on a repetitive basis?
What is your intention for tractorable piece?

 

[jeff9366]

i'm looking to pick up a tractor/loader/backhoe for homeowner use here in the Hudson Valley New York on thirty acres. I'm on a hillside with about a 1/4 mile driveway that someone said is at about an 8% grade.

I've gotta pull out ton of stumps, move big rocks, spread stone on my driveway, pull buckets of rocks up hill, drag logs up hill and generally get this place in shape. i'm looking for opinions regarding HP necessary for and the best transmission for it.

Since then i've been told that 4 x 4 is a must, at least 100 hp, and that a geared transmission is more stable for climbing.

i've spent a few hundred hours on excavators and loaders over the years, but I still consider myself a rookie.

If you rent an excavator for your heaviest task, multiple stump removal, a 5,000 pound bare tractor weight machine with 60-70 horsepower and 4-WD should be about right for your other tasks but that depends on how much land you will work repeatedly. $15,000 should get you a reasonable used machine. Only variations on gear transmissions in 5,000+ pound tractors; no HST.

Kubota B5660SU new = $43,000 MSRP with 4-WD and Loader (Maybe $39,500 after dealer discount.)
https://www.kubotausa.com/products/tractors/utility/m5660suh


The safe way to pull rocks and logs uphill would be to use a PTO powered logging winch on the Three Point Hitch, with the tractor parked on level, firm ground. Old car hoods from the junkyard are often used as sleds for large rocks, which the winch pulls up.

VIDEO: tractor logging winch - YouTube






The optimal way to shop for tractors is to list your tasks first, then determine bare tractor weight you need to SAFELY accomplish your tasks. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models. For most tractor tasks greater chassis weight is more important than tractor horsepower. This tractor fundamental is difficult for people new to tractors to comprehend.

Heavier tractors are built on larger frames with larger wheels/tires. Heavier tractors with large diameter tires have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow. Larger wheels and tires mean more ground clearance, enabling a heavier tractor to bridge holes, ruts and downed tree limbs with less bucking, yielding a less disturbing passage over rough pastures and woodlands.

Safe hillside operation demands more tractor weight than flat land operation and requires four wheel drive (4-WD). Greater mass of heavy-chassis tractors increases tractor stability when transporting loads in the FEL bucket, the most rollover prone of routine tractor tasks. Heavier tractors have adjustable rear wheel spreads; wide rear wheel spreads reduce tractor lateral instability.

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range. I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.

Tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are generally offered in a utilitarian configuration and a deluxe configuration, on a common chassis. Deluxe kit enhances productivity and operating comfort ~~~ but you have to pay. Many tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are too tall to fit in a typical garage, even with ROPS folded.

 

[fried1765]

hello people who know more then me! this is my first post so lemme know if this topic has been discussed before and i'l check out the other threads. i'm looking to pick up a tractor/loader/backhoe for homeowner use here in the Hudson Valley New York. I've gotta pull out ton of stumps, move big rocks, spread stone on my driveway and generally get this place in shape. The issue is that I'm basically on a hillside with about a 1/4 mile of driveway that someone said is at about an 8% grade.

my budget is about 15k and I'm leaning towards a late 80s early 90s John Deere 410, 510 or 710.

i'm specifically looking for opinions regarding HP necessary for pulling buckets of rocks up hill, dragging logs up hill and the best transmission style for it. and of course any other helpful info will be much allreciated. i've spent a few hundred hours on excavators and loaders over the years, but I still consider myself a rookie.

I was looking at a Ford 555B and read some poor reviews so I passed on it. Since then i've been told that 4 x 4 is a must, at least 100 hp, and that a geared transmission is more stable for climbing. For those reasons and a few others i'm leaning towards the JD machines.

I'm sure I'll get as many opinions as there are machines available and I'm looking forward to them. Thanks in advance and hopefully this thread can help anybody else in this situation BEFORE they buy a machine not suited to the tasks.

There are some OLD machines out there that can certainly fit your needs.
I bought a 48HP Ford TLB in 1986 with only 1350 hours.
It was 16 years old then, is 48 years old now, but still has only 1850 hours.
Mine has only a 10' hoe, but is a very strong machine.
You definitely need something bigger, ( I found exactly what I wanted) but if you are PATIENT you will find it.
Took me almost 2 years. It was a cemetery machine, traded in to a dealer.
I did a complete refurbishment on mine 2 years ago...looks like a new machine now (CAT yellow).
I will NEVER sell it!!!

 

[ofenback]

fellas thanks so much for taking the time for these insightful replies. much appreciated. I will try to address most of the questions and specify a little better what we've got going up here so it makes a bit of sense. and if I can figure out how to post a few photos that will help to explain the lay of the land.


firstly, regarding renting a larger excavator for the big stuff, that is on my mind for sure. I rented a Kubota U-55 for about 12 days in November to clear for a fruit tree orchard. I had already cut down all the trees and got them out of there (little by little over the last 3 years!!) as firewood so used the U-55 for digging stumps, moving rocks and grading. that cost me about $2100 and yeah, it was SWEET being on a well taken care of, fairly new machine that could dig and move heavy items. she's a 6 ton machine that didn't mind moving 10-20" oak stumps and my 30" diameter white pine stump.

and I'd obviously love to buy an excavator but they're even more $$ and I figured the FEL bucket would be great for moving dirt long distances.

my 5 year plan is to do all this heavy grunt work with a big machine and then sell it to buy something smaller, newer and lighter for use around the orchard and general property maintenance and possibly loading/moving smallish logs if I get a mill.

the biggest immediate job that confronts me is my driveway. here's where pictures will help.....it's gravel with ditches on either side. before we bought, previous folks would clear the ditches with an excavator and just empty the bucket on the side of the driveway. so over the years we now have these 5, 7, 10 foot high berms on the sides of the driveway with 10-20" dia oaks growing out of them. I've got to clean all this up because there's no place to plow the snow and if you end up with a wheel in the ditch you can roast the entire side of your vehicle with the roots, rocks and dirt on this berm by the time you get out. sounds weird I know, hopefully pics come thru.

so, yea the U-55 can handle all that but by the time I take weeks off work to do it and weeks of rental I'm not gonna have any bread left for my next machine, which I intend to keep forever. so I was hoping to be able to inch my way in with equity and not spend everything on rental fees.

jeff9366, thanks a ton for the insight into bare weight and the idea of a spreadsheet (among other pearls of wisdom). as per your question of how much acreage will see repetitive use and intentions for a tractorable piece, the answer is not much out of the 30 acres need tractor attention. it's mostly wooded and we intend to leave it that way, with the exception of maybe a little more clearing for a garage, sheds, maybe a cabin in the future, but I can rent a machine to deal with some of that if I'm on a later timeline.... but it's not a farm, it's a wooded lot on a ridge in the shawangunk mountains. my main issue is the driveway.

I need a powerful machine to:
-help me move logs once I cut down the trees along the banks
-move big rocks
-dig big stumps
-move a bunch of dirt around
-open up the mouth of the driveway and create a few turnouts
-grade driveway, and spread item/stone/shale/whatever
-dig some French drains, swales etc...(could poss use smaller machine for that depending....)
-other unforeseen stuff


once that's done I can get by with a smaller machine for moving mulch, moving smaller logs/firewood, and generally maintaining the place.

2 last items i'l mention in case they matter.... my driveway basically goes down. straight. I'm not planning on having a machine perpendicular to the slope. i'l be parked below my working area primarily and swing the hoe at about a 45* angle to dig with. so I'm not overly concerned about tipping completely sideways down my hill. not trying to make it sound safe, just sayin I'd try to be smart. believe me, I even had some sketchy moments on the U-55 and I drove that thing like a grandma!

lastly, myself and my 2 neighbors are going in on this together. me for most of it, them splitting the remainder. they've got property too and we all wanna get the big stuff out of the way now and then get into something smaller and newer.

pics are NOT happening. way too much of a pain and I got work to do. i'l try to get a photobucket account and go thru all the junk later if I can, wish that was easier, the pics def help tell the tale

thanks again so much for taking the time to give me your thoughts, this has already helped me clarify my vision and needs. I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch but i'l check back and try to answer any other questions.

be safe out there!

 

[rScotty]

I don't want to be discouraging, but realistically.... a functional 4x4, TLB for 15K? I don't know if I've ever seen such an animal.
After years of looking, my buddy finally found a decent JD310D 65hp 2WD with gear tranny & high hours but no real problems for $18K. Cab, heater not working, and bent doors. Engine & tranny sound, brakes marginal. There were lots of people in line if he didn't buy it.

He had to buy new tires - the old ones were not only flat but clear bald, batteries, hoses, replace oil and filters that looked original, and all the pins and bushings were sloppy from no maintenance as well. Most needed bushing. Some got pins as well. It's been a few years getting it into decent shape, but worth the effort. Does all the work himself and probably has $25K+ into it by now. And it's been a darn good machine. Engine was strong to start with and still is. Brakes are still marginal.

So I guess my point is for 15K realistically there is going to be some fixing to do. What kind of mechanics are you up to doing?
A big old farm tractor like the 1970s vintage JD4020 wide front with a loader and tire chains might be found in that price range as well. Would that work for your chores?
rScotty

 

[jeff9366]

Here are used tractors near Zip Code 12446 for sale on eBay.

LINK: Tractors | eBay

At a glance I liked this 4-WD Kubota with a Loader and sufficient power for your hills:
Kubota L42 Compact Tractor w/ LA68 Loader | eBay



Here are used Backhoe-Loaders near Zip Code 12446 for sale on eBay.

LINK: Backhoe Loaders | eBay




Kubota L4200

1994 - 1999 Grand L Series
Compact Utility tractor
Next model: Kubota L4310
Series back: Kubota L3600

Manufacturer: Kubota

Kubota L4200 Engine:
Kubota 2.2L 4-cyl diesel
Engine (gross): 45.3 hp [33.8 kW]
Engine (net): 42 hp [31.3 kW]
PTO (claimed): 37 hp [27.6 kW]
Plows: 2 (14-inch)

Mechanical:
Chassis: 4x2 2WD
4x4 MFWD 4WD (optional)

Capacity:
Fuel: 9.2 gal [34.8 L]
Hydraulic system: 10.3 gal [39.0 L]

3-Point Hitch:
Rear Type: I
Control: position control
Rear lift (at ends): 2,870 lbs [1301 kg]
Rear lift (at 24"/610mm): 2,310 lbs [1047 kg]

Power Take-off (PTO):
Rear PTO: independent
Rear RPM: 540 (1.375)
Engine RPM: 540@2447

Dimensions & Tires:
2WD Wheelbase: 71.3 inches [181 cm]
4WD Wheelbase: 71.1 inches [180 cm]
Weight: 2875 to 3500 pounds
Front tire: 6.00-16:14.9-24
full dimensions and tires ...

Kubota L4200 attachments:
blade
front-end loader
backhoe

Steering: hydrostatic power
Brakes: wet disc
Cab: Two-post ROPS. Cab optional with heat and air-conditioning.

Hydraulics:
Type: open center
Capacity: 10.3 gal [39.0 L]
Pressure: 2490 psi [171.7 bar]
Pump flow: 7.8 gpm [29.5 lpm]

Electrical:
Ground: negative

Battery:
Number: 1
Cold-cranking amps: 447
Volts: 12

Page information:
Last update: May 22, 2015
Copyright: Copyright 2016 TractorData LLC
Contact: Peter@TractorData.com

 

[jeff9366]

I need a powerful machine to:
-help me move logs once I cut down the trees along the banks

It does not take much tractor weight to pull large logs or stumps from the rear/center drawbar, if you do not mind the logs getting dirty.

My L3560 in photo is 3,494 pounds, bare tractor. Photo #1.



A Log Arch allows a tractor of moderate weight to transport clean logs suspended above the dirt. Good for transport to potential saw mill.

VIDEO: tractor log arch - YouTube

PHOTOS: compact tractor log arch - Google Search

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

I don't want to be discouraging, but realistically.... a functional 4x4, TLB for 15K? I don't know if I've ever seen such an animal.
After years of looking, my buddy finally found a decent JD310D 65hp 2WD with gear tranny & high hours but no real problems for $18K. Cab, heater not working, and bent doors. Engine & tranny sound, brakes marginal. There were lots of people in line if he didn't buy it.

He had to buy new tires - the old ones were not only flat but clear bald, batteries, hoses, replace oil and filters that looked original, and all the pins and bushings were sloppy from no maintenance as well. Most needed bushing. Some got pins as well. It's been a few years getting it into decent shape, but worth the effort. Does all the work himself and probably has $25K+ into it by now. And it's been a darn good machine. Engine was strong to start with and still is. Brakes are still marginal.

So I guess my point is for 15K realistically there is going to be some fixing to do. What kind of mechanics are you up to doing?
A big old farm tractor like the 1970s vintage JD4020 wide front with a loader and tire chains might be found in that price range as well. Would that work for your chores?
rScotty

I too am afraid you are looking for unicorn.